Now Ali,Holmes and Frazier give Marciano Props

What is apparent is that Ali changed his estimate of Marciano's prime abilities dramaticaly as a result of sparring with him. He obviously did not name Marciano as the man who would have posed the greatest threat to him based on the film footage.

This makes me think that he saw something in this old man, who he probably was easing up on. He saw the style and the power and knew that this was an absolute beast in its prime.

Perhaps even more dangerous than Joe Frazier.

 

I think Ali made a somewhat derogatory analysis of Marciano after they sparred

 

I think he did. Ali's preference was slick boxers and I don't think he would have been as impressed by Marciano as he was by only watching footage of him.

 

Yeah, because this would fit to Ali´s character ...

 

You won't find much from Ali post the Superfight. Even pre-superfight he said he was a great champion during the Floyd vs Chuvalo fight. So I'd actually be interested in any criticism you could find with Ali.

 

Okay, but to me it's a little different when a fighter says. "This guy has the tools and things to bother me." Then lists those strengths and reasons as to why it trouble him. That's not the same as saying, Marciano was a great champion.

Who before Ali's time troubles him more than Marciano would? When Ali/Frazier said what they said, what aspect of it do you disagree with? Seems you're just talking and sidestepping things. But I'm arguing with a Brit (See how I can make simple silly generalizations too).

 

Have you ever thought one thing about a fighter then changed your mind?

Make a list on a HW rankings and then adjust that list?

If so, stfu. :nod

 

Jesus dude, no need to get personal about the whole thing. I disagree with Ali when he says Marciano would have been his toughest fight for a number of reasons.

Marciano was being outboxed by the cute Walcott for 13 rounds. If anything is going to trouble Rocky, it's a fighter who has great footwork, extremely fast hands, and who possesses cat-like reflexes. As if that wasn't enough, Ali would enjoy a pretty substantial size advantage at 6'3. It's true, Frazier got to post-exile Ali in the fight of the century but I'm talking about 1960's Ali. He was a different animal.

The fighters who I feel give Ali of the 60s his toughest fight? Holmes because of his superior fundamentals and piston-like jab. Lewis because of his combination of size, power and skill - that I don't think any other Heavyweight can bring to the table. I'm not claiming these fighters are lying in their assessments, only that I disagree.

 

Yeah, not necessary but you have to realize you're being silly when you repeat an infamous Holmes line as a funny way to try discrediting Holmes word. But again, look I previously said you have to look at the context and look at what/when they are saying what they are saying. Holmes is very honest but somewhat sensitive guy. He and the press had a terrible relationship. He says he could whoop Foreman, says Lyle can whoop Tyson. There's some obvious resentment there. It seems he genuinely changed his opinion on the subject of Marciano. That in and of itself means something, no?

Who then?

Ok, fair points. But you do realize Rocky was blind for 3-4 of the middle rounds? You also realize Walcott was fighting a one of the best fights of his life up until that knockdown. Walcott was a cutey, but different stylistically. He was a hell of a lot more unpredictable and erratic while being a dynamite puncher. Ali may slice and dice and move on Marciano... he is faster, and moves more fluidly. I pick a prime Ali to beat Marciano by the way, but I don't see any fighter before Ali being more of a challenge than Marciano.

Um... Ali said all of this stuff before Holmes made it or became champion. Sorry he didn't have a crystal ball. I think I may disagree with this comment, both are very tough fights.

Again, this makes no sense. Ali didn't say this in 1998, he said this stuff during his career. Lewis had trouble with guys that jabbed well. Ali would dance and toy with him I think personally. I definitely disagree with you on this one. Mercer was actually troubling Lewis with the jab.

 

:huh I'm a terribly confused young man. I perhaps agree with Ali then, considering he said this before the reigns of Holmes, Tyson, and Lewis.

I apoligise.

 

It's all good man.

 

marciano was a hero of ali's as a kid - he was the heavyweight champ when young clay started boxing in 1954 - what he wanted to become. ali always had a soft spot for rocky but he did point out that he was lucky to be fighting great fighters past their best. i can picture rocky's face being a bloody mess like cooper v ali (ali would fight on the outside and move and with the big reach advantage i can see him scoring a lot) but rocky would be tough for anyone cuz he has that one special asset - massive fighting heart and most fighters know that is of most importance when fighting the very best!