Now Available! - In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part II: 1919 - 1923

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by apollack, May 5, 2023.



  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I am over 100 pages in and feel this is as good if not better than any of Pollack's previous books .. the golden nuggets about Dempsey, Wills, Miske, Greb, Gibbons float through the pages ... the Dempsey story really starts here and the abundance of care fully researched detail is amazing ... this one iss a can't miss ..
     
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  2. jdempsey85

    jdempsey85 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Book came much earlier than expected!

    Ive always avoided reading about the governments case vs Jack Dempsey in previous books for some reason? Anyway that chapter with the woman scorned deserves its very own tv series.

    Fascinating stuff inside volume II already
     
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  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    A ton of coverage form Dempsey sparring Greb .. many different accounts of the Michigan sparring coverage and a pretty different theme than legend has it ...
     
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  4. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Read through a couple pages (of 'In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part II: 1919 - 1923' ) last night, then gave a quick browse. The idea of that period seems to have been 'Dempsey the Wonder', with the question(s) of the moment(s) being, 'Is Dempsey yet more of a wonder?', 'Is Dempsey still the wonder that he was,' 'Are we seeing a different side of the wonderful Dempsey?' Even when people criticized some dimension of the technical/tactical/strategic Dempsey, it was admitted that he (at least had yet) been such a wonder as to have none-the-less triumphed. However, I'm sure a thorough read will uncover more pronounced criti/skepti-cisms.
    Miske's 1920 post-fight comments on Dempsey's vast improvement reminded me a great deal of Roland LaStarza's after his unsuccesful challenge of Marciano.
     
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  5. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    [EDIT] Also plenty of interesting pics. Of course, as highly recommended as all of Pollack (apollack's) writings.
     
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  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    What I'm getting is how impressive Dempsey was ( I'm only through Miske) before his inactivity began although by Miske he was already off a year ... the coverage of the Greb sparring puts a lot of the myth's about him being so overwhelmed and puzzled and outclassed to bed ... looking forwards to the info on the Brennan bout ...
     
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  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Completed the whole intense Miske fight section and again it seems like Dempsey's gotten a bad deal with all that claim Miske was a dead man walking .. I'm sure there are even more articles out there but from all the extensive coverage pre-fight about training and the actual fight it self , Dempsey was an exceptional fighter that day ... very interesting reading ...
     
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  8. jdempsey85

    jdempsey85 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is the Miske KO footage just to violent be released? Descriptions do make it seem kind of barbaric

    Some funny comments after the brutal battle with Brennan regarding longshoremen.Its another one where Dempsey or Bill dont get the credit for putting on a hell of a fight even today.Its one of the great contests for the title

    There is so much interesting information i need a blow to take it all in.Marvellous work
     
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  9. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In 'In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part II: 1919 - 1923' 's citations of comparisons of Dempsey with previous dominant heavyweights, it seems like (some) people go into greater detail (than vs. with Fitsimmons/Jeffries/Johnson) in comparing Dempsey and Sullivan. Perhaps, because Dempsey and Sullivan were generally similar sorts of fighters, pundits had to look harder for differences?
    It was interesting to see old lightweight Jack McAuliffe offering opinions, and holding out for Sullivan as the greatest. I remember when an interview of McAuliffe (after Baer-Carnera) was floating around on the internet -- I don't know if it's still floating around, it was some years ago now -- and he again favored Sullivan as greatest, and looked on Tunney as next best.
    Corbett's AT stock seemed a bit wilted in comparison to the rest of the 'old gang'.
     
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  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Interesting note , in prep for the Brennan fight it's quoted as saying Dempsey sparred on a specific date with Joe Jeannette among others .. is there any more evidence of this ?
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    It's very interesting to read the coverage of the time ... based on what's in this book it seems today Dempsey has become underrated ... first the extensive coverage of the Greb sparring ... this is from the multiple accounts in this book, Greb did not by any means dominate and overwhelm Dempsey for three days ... now the Brennan coverage which has always been positioned like Dempsey getting a beating and hanging on for his life ... not true here ... at the end of ten Dempsey seemed up 7-3 ... Brennan was a guy that came onto the fight super motivated and well conditioned and was fighting the fight of his life for the title and that's to his credit .. he was in very tough exchanges and had a few rounds where he landed hard but he was behind .. then the famous ear cut , kinda similar to the Marciano nose cut vs Charles added to the drama .. here it reads that it was a bruising fight where Dempsey proved terrific stamina, high fighting heart, the ability to take it from a big time puncher and late round vicious punching power ... the talk about him fading as a fighter after a few rounds in general based on fatigue after Toledo doesn't pan out .. Very interesting reading .. highly recommended ..
     
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  12. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interesting,so regards the Greb sparring " stories " ever since I have started following boxing circa 1969 the prevailing thought has been, Greb schooled Dempsey, over a two day spar session, some reports say Kearns stepped in, some don't, some say Dempsey lost his temper, some don't, some say Greb returned the next day to continue the beatdown, some don't, some say Dempsey was gassing after 3 rounds, some don't,now we have this new book and the reports say ( I assume ) none of the above is in fact true !!! it begs the question then ,what do we take for the truth? for over 100 years we ( the boxing fraternity ) swallowed the the now apparent lie that Dempsey was made a fool of, do we now have to sit back and wonder did Fitz have plaster of paris on his tape, was there a bolt in Dempsey's glove, was there a agreement with Ketchell and Johnson, etc, not making a case either way, just musing on what accountants do we take as sacrescant, who do we dismiss, Galico, Runyon, London ? new books and accounts throw shade on the recollections of history's greatest scribes, somewhat, am I making sense, or has the late hour got to me.....
    stay safe guys.
     
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  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I agree as I always read the same as if it were the Bible but at the least there is major, strong differences of opinion on the topics... specifically Dempsey - Greb in Michigan and then the Brennan fight ..
     
  14. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm all in on this one....Amazon be praised!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  15. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Got it and started it
     
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