Now Taylor has been beaten...will Americans accept Hopkins is nothing special now?

I think Pavlik is elite...but it all depends on each individual's criteria of elite. Of course he is not as good as Calzaghe or Kessler, but he is the recognized middleweight champion who has knocked out Miranda and Taylor in back to back fights. I look at him as the best at 160. But he should stay away from 168 for sure unless it is a rematch with Taylor.

 

He's elite at 160, of course, just not elite in the grand scheme, nowhere near it.

I hope he's rated adequatley also. He's huge at MW, essentially a SMW and if you think he'd do little at SMW, then the SMW guys who would rip him to pieces ought to get a little press for what they are able to do also.

 

Well said

 

You did call it. You get all the credit for that.

I myself dont feel Pavlik got lucky at all. He showed he has great stamina (actually got stronger as the fight progressed, where as Taylor faded), a better than average jab (something I didnt think he had), good power in both hands (we all knew that) and ability to bounce back after being floored (not an easy thing to do).

I do feel he was losing, as I explained in the other post.

As for the Adamek/Pavlik comparison. I do favor Adamek, but he does tend to take too many rights...something Dawson and Briggs were able to pick away at him with. And even as not being a big Pavlik guy, I have to admit, he has a HELL of a right hand.

Would I favor him to beat Adamek? No. Would it be totally out of the question? No.

BUT!!!!

Hopkins is a PROVEN legend. He has a fantastic resume. Great skills (even at this advanced age). You know I could keep going.

So now that someone that arguably beat him (you know where I stand on this issue), lost.....Americans (not boxing fans....just the US), need to realize he is nothing special.

GET THE **** OUTTA HERE.....you know that is some ANTI US BULL****. Like I said...Im a big CHJ fan normally....but as of late....he is getting out of hand with this hating most (Dawson excluded) US.

 

Or Bute which is a pretty cool fighter too...

Good point China....:thumbsup

 

Serious writting mate.. Good post.

 

It is really pointless to argue with stubborn, blatently biased fans, but here it goes. To point out one loss in a fighters career and say that proves him inferior to another fighter (which just so COINCIDENTALLY happens to be you're favorite fighter) is silly and childish. Most every alltime great has lost. When you fight top competition it is bound to happen eventually. Roberto Duran lost. Muhammad Ali lost. Julio Caesar Chavez lost. They all lost, but at least they can say they fought the best, and if that's not what truly defines a great fighter I don't know what does. At the end of the day I will give my respect to those who fight the best, regardless of thier nationality. I will also not point out that a win or loss of of one fighter completely undermines the accomplishments of any other fighter. It is for this reason that I do not give Joe Calzaghe credit. Not one time did he fight a p4p fighter. NOT ONCE!! Take a look at the list of p4p's that Bernard Hopkins, or for that matter any other "overly hyped Ameerican fighters" have fought and you tell me who has beat the better fighters. But you can always still claim that the rankings of an independent newssource are biased against (coincidentally) you're favorite fighter. Grow up and give credit where credit is due.

 

I don't think anybody is diminishing Hopkins' all time standing, but people are (imo rightfully) saying the Hopkins of today is beatable, there's this peception that the Hopkins of today can't be beaten by fighters like Dawson, Calzaghe and Kessler... the reality is he'd be in underdog in any of those matchups, he's far past his prime.

 

How can you put Hopkins and Taylor in two different class ?

Btw, Hopkins in 2001 vs Taylor 2007 = Hopkins by KO !

So De la hoya is C class, Cotto D class and Judah class E, come on !

 

I agree, Pavlik is too inexperienced to deal with a slick/dirty fighter like Hopkins.

 

Great fight last night. Taylor really should have finished it in the second round tho'. Anyway, the king is dead, long live the king.........but he really needs to stay away from SMW for a while. Calzaghe would dismantle him.

 

WTF?! :-(

His chin would be suspect if he went down after a single punch or a one two, but maaaan, he went down after taking 15 (yeah I've counted them!) power punches! And half of them were flush on the chin! Get real!

 

I just think the last generation of US-based middleweight champions were way better than their current counterparts. As a result the older generation have been able to keep winning inspite of their deterioration.

Jones Jr, Hopkins, Wright and Toney at their prime were way better than Pavlik, Dawson, Taylor... at the moment

As a result the P4P is a bit skewed.

 

We're talking about his chin or his defence? Couse he's defence is leaky - that's obvious. But Amsterdam got Pavlik on his "Suspect chin" list :huh

About that 15 punches - there is probably none other fighter in the division who is throwing combos so fluently, so don't be nervous. And count out Abraham :smooch

 

Well, you should use your own brain from time to time :good