Now that Fury is gone, AJ is going to reign for a very long time

yep, they both should be embarrassed by that stinker.

 

But look at how Wlad adjusted, revised and went in to trash Peter in the rematch

Brewster, too

 

brewster and peter in their primes both would have walked right through fury and ko'd him.

 

The only guy who should be embarrassed is the guy who kept on doing the same thing over and over knowing it wasn't working for him.
If he was an ATG , he woulda became Lewis from the Vitali fight.

 

that is why fury just added him to his two hands worth of ducks.

 

He performed even worse in the rematch. Using more grapple tactics isn't adjusting

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/09/steward-was-telling-wladimir-to-stop-clinching-peter/

 

that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

So? They still played a factor regardless... Also Wlad was still in a rebuilding stage. Let's give Peter that final KD - take away those kd's earlier which were from rabbit punches. Wlad still dominated that vast majority of the fight.

"Lederman was calling for disqualification?" So? The same Lederman who was bitching and moaning about holding when Wlad was punching Byrds head off in the rematch, only to get cut off and called out on his BS by Lampley as Wlad made him eat his own words by getting the stoppage? Why wasn't he calling for Peter to be disqualified for rabbit punching?


You still haven't responded to the fact that Bert Cooper knocked down Holyfield and Moorer - by your criteria that should hurt their standing and legacy.

 

So? It means he went life and death with a guy who was soundly beaten by a fat and old middle weight. These things matter when you are calling the guy in Question an ATG. They don't mater to you because your nothin but a fanboi.
"Rebuilding stage" ??
So a prime 10 year a pro - 45 wins- a former WBO Champion has to rebuild himself during the worst HW era in history??

Why , Because he wasn't good enough to beat ordinary Brewster and a past it Sanders?? What does that say about him? You make a counter argument for his greatness but are too dumb to see it.
An old Vitali came back after 4 years and put a pasting on Peter. A fight where he did not get touched nor commited a single clinch.. Wlad could not hold his ground with Peter in two efforts. Chambers , Helenius and James Toney all beat Peter a lot easier than Wlad. How was that possible?

Because Wlad glass jawed fraud kept turning his back during the combat. He did the exact same against Povetkin and Fury. Peter was throwing punches , which is what to are meant to you. Wlad was wrestling, cowering , clinching and trying to run away. It should have been little Peters holding on against Wlad , not the other way around

Is Moorer a top ATG? No.
Holyfield did what all greats do when faced with adversity and took the fight to Cooper and blew him out of there. Same with Moorer.
Holyfield didn't go into survival mode for all 12 rounds because he was afraid to tangle with Cooper. The situations aren't remotely comparable. And Holyfield beat guys infinitely better than Cooper. Sam Peter is one of Wlads best wins

 

Joshua beat Breazeale and Whyte, that proves he's unstoppable.

 

Greatness isn't completely determined by past struggles - it's more determined by what you go on to do regardless of previous struggles. Pac had some really bad losses early on in his career, didn't stop him from going on to become one of the greatest fighters of his generation. What matters to people fan or not when it comes to rating Wlad is his longevity, which more than makes up for his earlier flops. Might keep him out of the top 10 for a lot of people, but unless the person is a completely biased obsessive hater such as yourself it's impossible to keep him out of the top 20. Question Wlad's heart and flaws all you want... But the stats don't lie, and that's why he'll go on to become a consensus ATG regardless of what people like you think.

What does his career time have to do with anything you idiot? Are you saying that there's never been a well established fighter who re-invented themselves after a series of bad losses under a new trainer? Steward only started working with him a few fights prior.. He took a guy who everyone(including his own brother who advised him to retire) had written off and turned him into a dominant long term champion.

You might have a point if Peter wasn't notorious for his clubbing rabbit punches - he went out of his way to land those kind of shots.

See getting dropped by lower level opposition isn't the end all be all, nor is losing to them if you're able to pick up the pieces. It will certainly hurt his standing and prevent him from being next to the best of the best on most ATG lists, but he's still in any sensible persons top 15-20 on merit alone.

 

Forget about Pacquiao. His greatness can't be disputed. He came from the slums early on in his career and had none of the money and Olympic pedigree backing him like Wlad had.

Manny went onto beat multiple hall of famers and all time greats. He beat more champions than Wlad and more fighters ranked on the pound 4 pound list.
How many HOF/ATGS and pound 4 pounders did Wlad ever beat ? Zero.
Manny was a 3 time Ring fighter of the year. How many times was Wlad ? None.
If his longevity was so great , why did he never receive a fighter of the year award? Roy Jones Jr got penalized for dominating a poor era of Middle weights , even though one of them was Bernard Hophins. Roy Jones greatness gets questioned all the time and his career eats up and chits out Klitschko's.

The era Wlad ruled in was the laughing stock of all sports. The once marquee division relegated to 4th or 5th best. Its talent the thinnest of any competitive sport. Ruling over that roster of undersized bums is not what legends or ATGs are made of.
Maybe if he blitzed them in impressive fashion like Golovkin is doing would give him a greater claim , but he can't even do that. He was Deducted a point for excessive illegal holding against Haye , just embarrassing. Imagine Mike Tyson clinching Spinks out of fear. Thats how bad this guy is.
He couldn't even beat a 40 year old shot Mormeck without climbing all over his back 20 times in round one. Pitiful.

The only thing Peter was notorious for is losing every time he stepped up. He never used land no rabbit punches cos he wasn't good enough to land any punches full stop. He made Robert Helenius look like Lennox Lewis. He got destroyed one sided by Helenius in ways that Wlad couldn't come close to replicating in two efforts.
Wlad will be looked at as a great the same way Sven Ottke and Michalczewski are looked at as greats. He was never a great fighter. His only claim is a stat on paper.

 

You don't control what era you fight in, when Wlad ruled the HW division was no longer the glamour division - but that doesn't take away from his longevity and the fact that he beat a lot of GOOD fighters who would have been contenders in any era. Larry Holmes resume is criticized for the exact same reason - but you can't deny his consistency, skill and the fact that he didn't really duck anyone. Here's a thread a non-Klitschko fan in IB made comparing and contrasting their respective careers.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/contrast-holmes-reign-with-klitschkos.485445/

"Wlad will be looked at as a great the same way Sven Ottke and Michalczewski are looked at as greats. He was never a great fighter. His only claim is a stat on paper."

Not true at all. They didn't face and beat nearly as many top rated fighters as Wlad did, nor were either regarded as the consensus #1 or #2 in the world like Wlad, certainly not for anywhere near as long. By honest fans Wlad will be remembered has having a career that mirrored Holmes, maybe a little bit more flawed but EXTREMELY similar nontheless.

 

Boxing is an entertainment business. Holmes was entertaining. He fought fights that will always be ranked as some of the best of all time.
All Wlads most famous fights will always be seen as the worst of all time. His fight against Povetkin is one of boxings biggest disgraces. And thats against the best guy he ever faced. His #2. That proves what he's all about.

Homles left a legacy to be remembered. Wlad left a legacy thats best forgotten.

Look at Holmes school prime Mercer at a blubberly 42 years old. That Mercer was a better fighter than Povetkin. To put Wlad on the same page as Larry Holmes is a total joke. Wlad doesn't come close to holmes in terms of greatness.

 

Duhaupas and probably the same Steverne that beat Areola twice. Again, I am no Wilder fan, I was just pointing out that AJ has a lot more to prove before any talk about his reign.