Now that he's an 8-weight champ, is it time to start thinking of Pac as a top 20 ATG?

This. We're unfortunately in the midst of a weak WW era, where Pac is currently doing most of his damage. Hatton, Clottey and Margarito are not quite resume builders and when you factor in the time he spends to prepare for each of them, it is a little detrimental.

That said I have him around the 17/18 spot. I think that his skill set is extremely underrated and under-appreciated and that a lot of what he is doing is being completely missed in there. For example, I was absolutely blown away when (i believe in round 4) after almost leveling Margarito with that body shot, he suckered him and walked him on to another beautiful shot to the belly. Guy is some very, very special, but let's not forget that there were many special guys who achieved greater things before him.

And it's not an "old time nostalgia". You only have to look as far back as Duran. Pacquiao, with no wins comparable to Leonard I and Iran Barkley, is no Duran.

 

where to begin.

well first off i dont believe this fight should have any bearing on his ATG rating since he was a huge favourite and it was a blatant cherry pick.

secondly, it is hard to rank him really highly when he hasn't cleaned out one divison, i could be wrong here but most of the high ranking greats cleaned out their divsion.

third, the weight jumpng is pretty good, but not special. it looks better because he turned pro when he was a kid. ya know floyd started just as small and fought higher. im sure their are similar examples also.

finally, i still believe he would be the underdog vs floyd. so as much as he has justifiably earned the top p4p spot today, their are fghters that would expect to beat him. not many mind. probably just floyd and martinez in the 147-160 bracket. he is a natural WW today. and whilst he is the number 1 p4p he isn't the number 1 WW.

so we all know his great achievements, they are just some negatives i thought i'd note.

as for where i'd rank him ATG, it is hard to say because i am only 22. a lot of the big names have a mythical aura that isn't always conmpounded by facts. i'd say he is up there with the floyds, duran's and whittakers of the world. but as for the leonards and ali's? i'd like to see him win a couple of more big fights before putting him up there.

 

Top 10 to 20. Realistically

Two points.

First, go back 3 years ago and visualize Pac vs. Margo. If I told everyone Margo has no chance to beat or even compete with Pac, youd think Im crazy.

Secondly, the man is a born fighter, he puts himself in a position to really please the fight fans. He could have circled MArgo all night with the same result but he didnt.

 

Pacquaio has obviously reached legendary status and I'm fine with him being ranked in the top 20 but saying he should be top 5 is pushing it way too far. I don't know how you could rank him above the guys in my top 5;

Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Henry Armstrong
Harry Greb
Ezzard Charles

 

Top 5

 

I think pac man really needs to beat mayweather to be considered to be top 20.
but what can you do when the mans ducking you?

 

Top 5 :huh Are we using his wins over Cheato Clottey ,Cotto and Hatton to sky rocket him there ? Is that really enough to put him in the top 5 all time ?

If we are talking p4p it makes more sense but all time :huh:huh:huh

 

Difficult to become number 1 WW when you can't get a fight with the guy who holds the title. Even if you take a neutral perspective here, hard to blame Pacquiao.

Well, there's not a lot in this sentence that is correct. Quickly:

1. Duran went up in weight to face an undefeated, prime Sugar Ray Leonard who would go on to become one of the greatest welter weights of all time, and destroy him over 15 rounds. He would later, as an aging natural light weight, out-point an over-sized natural middle weight in Iran Barkley, who had just knocked out Tommy Hearns. He did some stuff in between that too.

2. Please don't put Floyd Mayweather in the same bracket as Duran.

3. Neither does Leonard belong anywhere above Duran. Ever.

 

Manny is not an 8 weight champ. An 8 weight beltholder. That´s something different. And about half of them are ******* divisions anyway. His achievements are blown out of proportion. And he fights in a shitty era. People just don´t realise how many greats there are. He is an ATG though, no doubt about it.

 

It's hard to put in context the present while it occurs, you know we are watching greatness, but honestly judging it with a fair eye is difficult. There is a tendency with all sports that aren't judged by timing/weight performance (weight lifting & track & field) to overrate the past.

Give it 10+ years and Pac will be looked at in the same breath by everyone as those guys. Trust me.

 

No one is allowed to take you serious anymore.

You called Joe Louis, Pep, Ali, and Duran. Bums.

WTF
'


atschatschatschatschatsch

 

It is the manner of his victories over opposition like Barrera, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito etc that is so impressive.

Pacquiao beat these guys so convincingly in such 1 sided beat downs.

He just needs to do the same to Floyd Mayweather Junior to cement his place as a top 20 all time great. Maybe even top 15 or top 10.

 

i think you're forgetting that a lot of other atg fighters had plenty of catchweight fights as well. SRL was one of them. this isn't a new thing.

 

i'm just stating the fact that certain experts and boxing historians are already placing him above all of the above except for sugar ray. honestly, i think there's an argument for that.

 

:deal