Now who wins prime Calzaghe or prime Ward?

It's an opinion based on logic after watching Joe's career in it's entirety.

I can say with full confidence that a guy who starved himself coming down from 190 plus pounds to fight guys like Kabary Salem, would never have moved up to fight a guy like Sergey Kovalev.

 

Yes of course you can and you are entitled to as it is an opinion but not fact.

 

What don't you understand about where I said: As a whole?

No, I haven't explained in detail as it's self explanatory.

For those 7 years where Joe starved himself to make weight, the consensus P4P no.1 fighter fought at LHW. And he fought there alongside Dariusz M, Griffin and Hill etc.

Along with Joe, the best SMW's in the world during that time were: Ottke, Brewer, Mitchell and Reid etc.

If you want to compare like for like, we can.

A faded Graham was knocked out by a basic Brewer.

Reid lost to Branco and Malinga.

Sure, you can compare guys like Telesco and Harmon with guys like Tate etc, but there's no comparison between the top fighters.

Regarding Reggie Johnson, he didn't do a deal at LHW, but he was a very good fighter. Certainly better than the majority of guys who Joe fought.

 

So you don't agree?

Put forward an argument.

 

This is laughable, and another great example of people making emotion-based arguments not supported by data. I can't believe people can even write stuff like this. I sincerely hope you don't believe this.

Let's come back to reality.

Calzaghe landed more punches on Hopkins (232) than any other Hopkins opponent ever had up to that point in time. Joe throws a lot, and he lands a lot. Even against a terrific defensive fighter like Hopkins.

I went through some Compubox data for both Calzaghe and Ward. As you would expect, some big differences.

In looking at four of Ward's fights, he seemed to do best from a landing level against Froch (not a surprise as Froch isn't exactly a great defensive fighter) and at an output level against Kessler. Here are the stats for Ward:

vs Froch ---------> 573 punches thrown; 243 punches landed ------> Ward 27 years old
vs Kessler -------> 667 punches thrown; 225 punches landed ------> Ward 25 years old

Now, let's compare that with Calzaghe from his bouts against Lacy and Kessler:

vs Lacy ----------> 0948 punches thrown; 351 punches landed ------> Calzaghe 34 years old
vs Kessler -------> 1010 punches thrown; 285 punches landed ------> Calzaghe 35 years old

So, what we see is a guy out of his prime throwing nearly 350 more punches than a guy in his prime, and landing more than 100 more punches when looking at the Lacy bout/Froch bout. And Lacy was 21-0 (17) when Calzaghe fought him. Meaning Joe had to be wary of Lacy's power. At least at first.

Imagine what, say, a 28-year-old Calzaghe would do, in terms out output, against an opponent whose punch he did not have to fear?

Calzaghe threw about 80 punches per round against Lacy. Just to get an idea of how many that is, I think Paul Williams threw about 90 punches per round in his best days. Monster workrate. The kind of workrate that makes it impossible to win rounds against someone throwing that many shots. Especially when they are on the front foot and you are not.

A 36 year old Calzaghe threw 707 punches against Hopkins. He landed 232 of them, which is just 11 fewer than Ward landed against Froch. When Ward was 27 years old.

Anyone who thinks that Ward is going to be able to compete with Calzaghe in terms of workrate and landed punches is not credible.

Calzaghe is going to throw, he's going to land, he's going to rack up rounds and he's going to win an easy decision over Ward 10/10 times.

A 35-year-old Calzaghe threw almost 85 punches per round against Kessler, who was 39-0 (29) at the time when Calzaghe fought him. Kessler was 28 years old, in his prime, and possessed a serious punch. And Calzaghe just mowed him down with workrate.

Ward has no chance against Calzaghe. It's not there, it never was there, it never could be there. No matter how much Ward fans may want to wish it to be there.

 

One other data comparison set.

We see, above, how many punches a 35-year-old Calzaghe could throw in a 12-round fight (1000+). So what does a 32-year-old Ward look like in terms of output? Let's compare:

Calz at 35 -------> 1010 punches thrown against Kessler over 12 rounds
Ward at 32 ------> 0337 punches thrown against Kovalev over 12 rounds

Triple the output.

Anyone who thinks that Prime Ward beats Prime Calzaghe is delusional. Delusional. The outcome is probably more likely to look like Calzaghe-Lacy than a more competitive bout.

 

More information.

What would have been the Calzaghe-Hopkins scoring if Calzaghe is not knocked down in the first round?

Joe would have won that round 10-9 (he was on his way to winning the round when he got knocked down) rather than lose it 10-8. That would have made the scoring look like this:

118-110 (10-2 rounds)
117-111 (9-3 rounds)
115-113 (7-5 rounds)

Even with the crazy Byrd card there, it's a wipeout.

So, Hopkins was probably the toughest overall fight Calzaghe had. And Calzaghe had to deal with an American ref and American judges. And Hopkins is a defensive wizard who fights dirty and has a high ring IQ.

And Calzaghe easily handled him. Particularly if you remove round 1.

Ward isn't getting a knock down of Calzaghe. So the scores for a potential Calzaghe-Ward fight probably look a lot like the scores posted above here.

It's not a competitive fight. And that has more to do with how good Calzaghe was than any diminishing of Ward's abilities.

Joe really was that good. And Ward isn't on his level.

 

Joe wins by decision but Ward would possibly foul himself out before that.

 

That's true, not saying ward will lose. Definitely favouring ward to dec Lacy. But he will have trouble out muscling him upclose.

 

LOL, its not self explanatory at all.

OK I'll play along, Griffin beat Toney twice,excellent wins but other than that he fought a bunch of cans and lost everytime he stepped up, prior to his first victory over Toney he had fought only 3 men with winning records.

He was a very good fighter but that is all, nothing at all special. And I'm saying take away your top 2 guys and there's alot of good but not great fighters.

Also you are saying in reference to Calzaghe that he ducked a stronger 175 through draining himself, well if that's the case look at Ward.

Gold medalist in the amateurs, drained himself to 168, why was he not fighting Dawson at 175 instead of draining him?

Why after winning the super 6 did he not move straight up instead of wasting his time on Rodriguez?

Why has he been at 175 for 2 years and only fought 2 light Heavies? The other 2 was a crap middleweight and a midget super middleweight!

It seems to me that you have double standards for both fighters.

 

I have been doing but you seem blinded by your hatred for tge man.

 

No , lets NOT compare Carl Froch to Jeff Lacy. Neither Ward nor Froch have ever defended anybody as bad as Lacy.
The only data to take away from this is that Ward beat the utter crap out of Kessler by throwing and landing far LESS punches than Calzaghe did.
Joe threw the kitchen sink and STILL went life and death with Kessler . What a fail of a post

Paul Williams threw 1000's of punches agains Margarito . Martinez lost to Margo . . I guess Martinez doesn't stand a chance against Williams right??? WRONG

Delete your handle idiot.. YDKSAB..

 

this is one of the worst comeback posts I have ever been witness to.

 

LOL, why?

You obviously don't read the shyte you post then do you.

 

116-112 ×2
117-111

Not really life and death is it?