Observation on Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Pugilist_Spec, May 16, 2019.



  1. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    He's a very unique fighter. Has a lot to do with his physical build. His arms are crazy long, he has the reach of a 6'5''-6'6'' tall fighter. Watching his fight with Whitehurst, it just stood out to me how he dominated him at mid range despite the fact that Whitehurst was the same height as him. His punches are crude, but insanely powerful. He couldn't throw a short hook to save his life, keeps throwing massive haymakers and shovel hooks but gets away with it because he has good balance and knows to how to control distance. Whitehurst is overwhelmed because he has trouble with Listons range advantage, and when he does start getting punches off Liston shows cute and subtle defensive maneuvers, slips and rotations. Good head movement. His footwork isn't fancy but gets the job done. Inside he's much stronger, and at range far superior and better equipped. Whitehurst was gutsy though and boxed well, landed some good shots but couldn't do much beyond that.
     
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  2. CarlChilders

    CarlChilders Member booted Full Member

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    Liston for the most part knocked out guys that would be considered small cruiserweights by modern standards. He beat Cleveland Williams who was good sized but was slow and they come and couldn't really take a punch and Liston beat Chuck Wepner. Those were the only two modern sized heavyweights I think he beat.
     
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  3. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Member Full Member

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    Cool observations. Liston really did seem to have amazing balance and I suspect poise might be a good word here as well. A blankly confident rugged fighter and in general a creepy looking dude.
     
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  4. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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  5. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How about his heart when he was champion?....especially his 2 "fights" with Cassius Clay in Miami in 1964 and in Maine in 1965...this has to enter into the discussion.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    One thing to keep in mind, many of Liston's best fights are not on film. For example be blitzed Nino Valdes, and Valdes was about 6'3" tall 210 pounds.

    To see Liston at his best, watch the Bethna fight. Sonny's hand speed really slowed down in the mid to late 1960's.
     
  7. CarlChilders

    CarlChilders Member booted Full Member

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    Right because you name one 6'3 210 pound guy it means something? That whole era was still weak. The average heavyweight was still around 185 pounds. So my point still stands. Liston fought mostly small cruiserweights by modern standards.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Valdes today would be 220. I'm not saying Liston did not fight money big heavies. There were few back then. I am saying heavies who did not move well ( including the bigger ones ) are in serious trouble vs Liston.

    Didn't; the bigger heavies he fought last less time on average? I think so

    For example I think Liston would have a harder time with Jim Corbett than Primo Carrera.
     
  9. CarlChilders

    CarlChilders Member booted Full Member

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    Could you casual fans stop it with this silly stuff. Stop trying to compare boxers from the 1880's to modern skilled boxers. The skill level alone is light years a part . Then you add the fact the Corbett was 170 to 180 pounds. Liston would destroy this guy in less than a round.
     
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  10. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Member Full Member

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    You think Williams was slow?
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Corbett was about 185-190. Liston had trouble with fast movers and defensive types. Marty Marshall anyone? Do you think Marshall was better than Corbett? Also, I do not recall your name I see you are a new poster here. Either that or a poster who uses more than one account. Most people here are not causal fans.

    My point, which you likely missed was the bigger fighters lasted less time with Liston. You could not stand up to Sonny and expect to last long, you had to move around well, otherwise, the bull would get the mandatory rather quickly.
     
  12. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He is black Hercules plus others....he just came back after being booted and will likely end up there again. He takes his name appropriately enough from a Billy Bob Thornton movie and the name is appropriate even if he is not bright enough to spell it with a K.
     
  13. CarlChilders

    CarlChilders Member booted Full Member

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    Corbett was 170 to 180 period. This isn't up to debate. Also again casual fan Marty Marshall was far more skilled than any boxer from the 1800's. I am not talking about historically speaking. I am talking about facts. It is like saying a car from the 1920s was as complex as a modern car. If you think a boxer from the 1800s is as as skilled as a boxer from the 1960s then you are a casual fan and I will ignore anything else you type. Dismissed.
     
  14. CarlChilders

    CarlChilders Member booted Full Member

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    Williams was only fast to casual fans like you.
     
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  15. JackSilver

    JackSilver Active Member Full Member

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    Black Hercules must’ve been before my time. I actually thought this new guy might’ve been that tool,Combatesdeboxeo.
     

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