Observations from RJJ v Griffin...

general zod · Oct 20, 2010

gooners!! said: ↑

Griffin showed how ineffective Roy Jones was when he had to take the lead in a fight
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The counter punchers Jones has fought:
Griffin *2
Tarver*3
Toney
Hopkins
Harding
Does anyone here know anymore?

Pimp C · Oct 20, 2010

gooners!! said: ↑

Griffin showed how ineffective Roy Jones was when he had to take the lead in a fight, where by Jones could not sit back and play counter puncher, now the reason I think he had so much trouble leading, is because he did not have a jab to set up his own attacks, he liked to use the opponents aggression, their leads, to set up his offense.

Even when Jones came foward, was aggressive, in other fights, he would generally try and draw leads to counter, he was too cautious of a fighter to get off first, now he got off first against Toney because Toney fought from the center, Griffin drawed him foward, asked him to close the kill zone and drag him out of the corners, of coarse Roy finished Griffin off by taking it to him(rematch), but he also got hit, simply because that was not his game, although I take the point he did get the finish, however you do have to wonder what would of happened had he been fighting someone with a better chin than Griffin, someone who was on the same level as Jones, and could execute the same game plan as Griffin.
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Excellent analysis I agree 100%:good

Axe · Oct 20, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

Just watched this bout, and a few
points:

1) I had Griffin winning by a point, but it couldve easily been the other way around. I think the difference hinged on round 6 where a frustrated Roy cane out guns blazing with flashy combos that landed infrequently and that which Griffin used to land some big counters. If you liked Roys flash then he won the round, if you liked Ice's big counters then he wins.
2) Griffin was a hell of a fighter. The way he outboxed a prime RJJ for stretches was impressive and he holds wins over Toney and RJJ- arguable the best fighters between 160-175 in that era. He reminds me a bit of Archie Griffith- low center of gravity, long arms, very crafty.
3) the point "roy wouldve won anyway bc he have at least a 10-8 round" seems irrelevant to me bc the ref stated afterwards that he wouldve penalized roy 1 or 2 points.
4) the rematch should not detract from Grifins great performance. Like jose basora Ainst SRR, on this night he was as good as anyone in the world. Toney, Jones, Johnson, Tarver, this dude fought everybody. I wonder howbmuch leaving Futch hurt Griffin.
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This rings true for me especially. Griffin was a hell of a fighter.

In his prime he only ever lost to Jones and Michalczewski, the two best LHWs of that era. He was robbed against Harding where he outlanded him and scored a KD, but lost a decision somehow.

nastynas · Oct 20, 2010

general zod said: ↑

I thought Lederman said that?
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Youre right, thanks for pointing that out.

Axe · Oct 20, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

Anybody score it and/or score the 6th?
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I had the 6th to Griffin as well. Actually there was also an earlier KD credited to Roy where if you watch it closely, Montell tripped over Roy's leg. If not for that KD Montell is up even more.

Peppermint · Oct 20, 2010

In the first fight Griffin was undefeated and fresh off his victory over James Toney. Roy was in against the best ever version of Griffin and he had to make a lot of adjustments. In the 2 rounds prior to the dq. Roy was starting to take over, and had it not been for the dq., he would have got him out of there in the 10th.

PH|LLA · Oct 20, 2010

Jones would've won the fight if he didn't hit Griffen while he was down.

Brighton bomber · Oct 20, 2010

gooners!! said: ↑

Exactly, fighters like Jones, Hamed got hit more on the front foot, cause they are strictly counter punches, but counter punchers who lack fundamentals, which is a direct result of not having a jab to set up your attacks, you cant throw power punches and not the set them up with a jab, and not get hit.

When those fighters were at their best was when their offense came from their defense, where by the opponent would take the lead, infact I have seen most of Jones's fight, and they became tedious at times, simply because he refused to lead.
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I have noticed the same. Jones often got accused of being boring and not finishing fighters off, but some of that wasn't just due to being cautious but due to the fact when an opponent shut up shop and was looking to survive Jones wasn't as effective because he was forced to lead.

Flash Jab · Oct 20, 2010

I love how you're defending a fighter who got knocked the **** out despite according to you being "as good as anyone in the world". The only reason Jones lost this fight was because he threw another punch too late, points don't matter when you're sprawled on the canvas, no matter how you're doing in the fight, he was simply surviving.

nastynas · Oct 20, 2010

Flash Jab said: ↑

I love how you're defending a fighter who got knocked the **** out despite according to you being "as good as anyone in the world". The only reason Jones lost this fight was because he threw another punch too late, points don't matter when you're sprawled on the canvas, no matter how you're doing in the fight, he was simply surviving.
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On that night Griffin was as good as anyone in the world. And the only reason he was sprawled on the canvas was b/c Jones threw that late hook.

general zod · Oct 20, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

On that night Griffin was as good as anyone in the world. And the only reason he was sprawled on the canvas was b/c Jones threw that late hook.
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Futch's opinons on Jones:

One of Eddies last ring accomplishments was in assisting Montell Griffen in his win over Roy Jones Jr for the WBC light heavyweight title. "We had Roy so frustrated that he had to foul. We got inside Roys head." (Futch laughs)

"Roy uses his loss in the Olympics as a crutch. My fighter Montell Griffen lost a controversial decision to Torsten May in the Barcelona Olympics. You don't see him crying over it do you?" Eddie went on to say that Roy would never be a crowd pleaser. This should be noted that Eddie was not part of the Griffen/Jones rematch. If he was one would have to wonder if Jones would not have received his second career loss.
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http://www.eastsideboxing.com/curly1110.html

Futch saw clues to Jones’s psychology in his style that suggested an unusual fear of getting hit, so he instructed Griffin to feint and bull him. Jones was not comfortable, ended up losing by disqualification, and old Eddie Futch ruined another perfect record.
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http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/7149/jones/

Roy Jones lost his 0 when Jones met the highly-rated Montell Griffin, Montell had beaten James Toney but he was facing the very best in Roy Jones - a P4P monster with skills to burn. Griffin upset the Jones equilibrium to such an extent Jones hit out at Griffin when Montell was down. Jones was coming slowly into the fight but had been befuddled by the dipping and rolling low-equilibrium strategy of Montell, a fight plan that worked wonders as attested by Jones transgression: Roy Jones vs. Montell Griffin took place on the date of our wedding anniversary! (3-21-97). There was a lot of drama leading up to the fight. Eddie felt that there was a fear factor in Roy Jones and told Montell to feint a lot (to throw Jones off guard). Also, to keep pressing forward and pin Jones up against the ropes. Well, you saw the result. It is too bad Montell's manger manoeuvred to get Eddie "out of the picture" for the second fight because Eddie had another strategy that I think would have worked beautifully! Some might say it is improbable that Eddie would have been able to get Montell the second win over Jones yet bear in mind, as previously stated, that Futch had twice brought defeat to Muhammad Alis door. Certainly it seems fair to assume that with Futch in his corner Montell would not have walked into the Jones bombardment that saw Griffin lose the rematch in the first stanza.
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http://www.boxing$cene.com/?m=show&id=4388

general zod · Oct 20, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

Youre right, thanks for pointing that out.
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your welcome

Flash Jab · Oct 20, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

On that night Griffin was as good as anyone in the world.
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Just not Roy Jones.

nastynas · Oct 21, 2010

Flash Jab said: ↑

Just not Roy Jones.
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Its funny how sensitive you're getting. Griffin was winning and won. Jones is the greater fighter by far.

general zod · Oct 21, 2010

nastynas said: ↑

On that night Griffin was as good as anyone in the world. And the only reason he was sprawled on the canvas was b/c Jones threw that late hook.
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Jones knew full well, what he was doing. He was frustrated so he intentionally hit Griffin when he was down.

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