Observations on Joe Calzaghe's career.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by trampie, Feb 5, 2009.


  1. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Joe Calzaghe won 110 out of 120 amateur bouts, he became the first boxer since the 1920s to win 3 ABA titles at different weights and only the second person ever.
    Calzaghe should have gone to the Barcelona Olympics, but because he was not liked by the establishment, they did not want his father in the corner ?,they felt he was arrogant and cocky ?, they controversially picked an Englishman instead ?, Robin Reid was selected and won a Bronze medal, Reid went on to become WBC champion as a pro, Joe beat him for the WBO title.
    3 time American amateur champion Chris Byrd won a silver medal at that Olympics and was knocked clean out by Calzaghe in the amateurs.
    Everything points to Calzaghe picking up the gold in the Olympics if he had been allowed to enter, that would have given him a higher profile when he joined the pro ranks the big fights would have happend early in his career and not at the end.

    Calzaghe's career started well, until he was due to have his first title shot against Steve Collins, Collins retired rather than defend his title against Joe, Chris Eubank stepped in at the last minute so Joe only got limited credit for beating him, if Joe's pro career had started a year or two earlier he could have had Benn and Collins on his resume ?

    In 2001, Roy Jones Jnr was looking for potential fights that would make money. He asked Chris Eubank what he fought about a potential Calzaghe fight and Eubank reportedly told him "You don't want no business of Calzaghe, the risk is far greater than the reward"
    In 2002, Joe Calzaghe had a contract signed with Don King, having received verbal confirmation from the Hopkins camp for the fight to be signed. The very next day, Hopkins pulled out of the fight asking for double the money. Rumour has it, this is after Hopkins asked a few fighters what they thought of Calzaghe.

    Calzaghe enjoyed some good nights -
    Eubank - old ex champion, fought away from home,Calzaghe first title fight.

    Reid - ex WBC champion fought away from home.

    Lacy - billed as the next Mike Tyson, unbeaten belt holder.

    Kessler - multiple title holder, unbeaten. Massive crowd watched Joe at the Millenium Stadium, Cardiff.

    Hopkins - ATG, still 80 to 90% prime [as proved against middleweight champ Pavlik], fought away from home.

    Roy Jones Jnr - fought at Madison Square against an ATG, not a bad way to go out.

    Joe Calzaghe held at least one of the Super middleweight belts continuously for over 10 years, he defended his belt successfully 21 times.[not far short of Louis 25 defences]
    He is one of only 2 boxers to have held all 5 recognised World titles in one division.
    Joe stepped up to Light heavyweight for his last 2 fights.

    If Joe had not been plagued by hand injuries he would have passed Marciano's mark of 49 and 0. {finished 46 and 0}

    Joe Calzaghe was a champion, he did not know how to lose, he always found a way to win, his resume could be stronger, but head to head he was virtually unbeatable.
    To win 46 out of 46 and to never come close to losing, and not be involved in any controversies, is excellent.
    {Hopkins and Reid fights were fair results both achieved away from home}
    Only 1 rematch, which meant that he beat 45 different boxers.{Marciano only beat 44 different men}
    Had he fought a prime Hopkins i would take Joe to win, had he fought prime Jones Jnr, Jones Jnr would have been the favourite, but i would not have bet against Joe, as he was a winner.

    I rank Joe just inside the top 50 all time, most people would rank him as top 100, since it is generally accepted that Joe Calzaghe under achieved,
    where would he have been ranked if he had won the Olympics, had the opportunity to fight and beat an old Collins and Benn at the begining of his career, lose a close decision to a prime Jones Jnr in 2001 and beat a prime Hopkins in 2002 ?
    Those 4 fantasy fights beating Collins,Benn and Hopkins and losing a decision to Jones jnr as well as winning the Olympics was possible ?
    {giving a won 49 lost 1 record} infact i would say it was likely, and when you consider how high Roy Jones Jnr is ranked by most people, Calzaghe would have ranked alongside him, if Joe had beaten Jones in 2001 then he could have been 50 and 0 with a gold, he would have been top 10 ATG stonewaller.
     
  2. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Very good fighter, but not great. Generally overrated now, but that will change with time as his weak resume depreciates further in value (in 20 years the hype surrounding Jeff Lacy will have been largely forgotten and he'll just be another name like Brewer or Sheika). Could have achieved more if he had bothered to demand some big fights and quality opposition between 1997 and 2006, but he didn't.
     
  3. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Interestingly Marciano was not ranked highly towards the end of his career, his ranking has shot up with the passing of time.
     
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Talk about pissing your potential away over the course of 90% of your career.
     
  5. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    From Marciano's resume
    Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore (we won't include Joe Louis as he was obviously shot)

    From Calzaghe's resume
    Bernard Hopkins (past-prime), and... (we won't include Roy Jones as he was obviously shot)


    That's why Marciano is rated highly many years after he has retired, and that's why Calzaghe won't be to anywhere near the same extent.

    And I'm not so sure Marciano is so much more highly rated now anyway. I don't believe you'd find him in any sensible/quality p4p top 30 nowadays.
     
  6. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I can't ****ing stand that filthy chapped ****. I ****ing hate him. Hate him so, so much.
     
  7. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's hard to knock a fella who's gone what 15 years unbeaten whatever the level of opposition which although not fantastic hasn't been bad. The big names have come late in his career but he's dealt with it all. If they had come earlier he possibly could of risen to the challenge. I don't think we ever saw the best of him at his peak.
     
  8. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not sure what your point is ?, do you realise that Marciano only fought for the title 7 times and 2 of them times were rematches, nearly all those title fights were against old men, thats why i rank Marciano down in 31st place on my ATG list.

    When Marciano fought Moore, Marciano was 32 years old and Moore was 3 months short of his 40th birthday.

    When Marciano fought Walcott, Marciano was 30 and Walcott was 8 months short of his 40th birthday, Jersey Joe never fought again.

    When Marciano fought Charles he had a 2 year age advantage, Marciano 31 and Charles 33.

    And for the record when Marciano fought Louis, Marciano was 28 years old and Loius was a decade older,{just short of 10 years older} Louis never fought again.
     
  9. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Heh, so many fighters have gone unbeaten for over a decade the 15 years ends up being underwhelming and not even particularly unique, even more so when you look at all the never where's and past prime fighters on his actual resume.

    Really, the closest to prime/best performance combination was his fight with Kessler.

    Who really gives a **** if you go 40 something and 0 against crap competition? Big fish in a small pond for 95% of his career.
     
  10. Dave's Top Ten

    Dave's Top Ten Active Member Full Member

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    Sums him up well.
     
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Calzaghe was:

    - considerably younger than Eubank, 32
    - considerably younger than Hopkins, 43
    - considerably younger than Jones, 40

    His three biggest-name opponents.

    So??? I don't see why you keep going on about age. Irrelevant.

    The fact is that half a century later, people remember Marciano's fights with guys whose legacies have stood the test of time in their own rights: Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore.

    So to the casual fan, he fought greats and this helps his general rating and popular perception decades and decades after he was around.

    In 50+ years time, are people going to know the names of Jeff Lacy? Byron Mitchell? Chris Eubank? Mikkel Kessler?

    I sincerely doubt it. And I rule out any of them ever gaining the status of a Charles or a Moore.

    The only name on Calzaghe's feeble resume which will carry any weight historically will be Hopkins.

    The RJJ win will rightfully be discounted, as is Rocky's win over Joe Louis because he was, as I said in my initial post, obviously shot.
     
  12. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    :good
     
  13. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    And the only win that people will remember, the Hopkin's one, has Calzaghe looking like absolute ****.

    Closing his eyes winging punches, getting knocked down in the 1st with his nose being cut in the process, and in general looking terrible.

    I already feel Hopkin's took that fight with far more effective punching and actual defense, but hey.
     
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    My sentiments exactly.

    I thought Calzaghe was a more skilled fighter before the fight with Hopkins.

    From the mid-rounds onward, it was apparent that Hopkins at 43 no longer had the engine or the energy to go hell for leather with a threshing machine opponent, but Calzaghe just did not have the skills to produce any clean, effective or significant work whatsoever, and sneaked an SD which he was given simply for moving his arms around a lot. I had Hopkins winning by a point though.

    It was glaringly obvious that Hopkins was the superior boxer. If only they had fought between 1997 and 2003 when Hopkins had the energy and stamina of a younger man, the artist B-Hop would have thoroughly outclassed the artisan Joe C.
     
  15. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Well said.

    The sole thing that made that fight what it was in Calzaghe's favor was work rate. That's literally ALL he brought to the table.

    Durability? He was dropped and lost his legs for a split second a few times from Hopkin's shots.

    Experience or ring savvy? Ring generalship? Cutting off the ring? He was made to look like an amateur in general.

    Power? :lol::lol::lol: