ODLH: GGG-Canelo Rematch Talks To Resume AFTER Saunders-Lemieux (GBP Preparing To Duck GGG Rematch?)

Check boxrec blood, its simple !

 

if you can't see it, then exercising my .5% of a functioning brain cell in response is not going to enlighten you

 

So this is what a true boxing debate looks like online? I am truly impressed by reading both post from you guys. Good **** on a real note. I like this for certain. Tit for tat with no b.s..

 

If BJS wins GGG should fight him. That'll show DLH for trying to avoid the rematch

 

The controversy is definitely comparable. Both fights were recorded draws, yet there were obviously clear winners. I think Whitaker/JCC, LL/Holyfield and GGG/Alvarez were all on level as really bad decision. They also all align in the fact that there was an overwhelming consensus amongst fans who felt Pernell, Lennox and Gennady won their fights only to be impacted by good old fashion “home cooking”.

Whitaker definitely outboxed JCC better than Alvarez did against GGG because Alvarez didn’t really outbox Golovkin. GGG outboxed Alvarez. Canelo said he thought he won, but so did Evander and so did JCC. I doubt they honestly believe it but that is an assumption on my part.

GGG and Alvarez had a good 12th round but Golovkin was more consistent and controlled the action more than the spots Alvarez fired off. Golovkin landed good clean shots as did Alvarez but it was GGG who was more effective.

Alvarez did well against GGG. He was not “brilliant”. He was brilliant against Khan, Liam, Kirkland etc. The stark contrast in the overall performance between those 3 fights and his outing against GGG paints a clear picture as to who won.

Golovkin was definitely better conditioned and had more gas in his tank at the end of 12. Had this been a 15 round fight I don’t know if Alvarez would have been able to make it to be completely honest. He’s always had issues with stamina and in the GGG fight it was apparent.

 

There was nothing obviously clear about the outcome of Canelo Triple G, but we're obviously never gonna agree on that. You're in your world and I'm in mine as far as how we see the fight. We can both claim that our view is the one rooted in reality, but at the end of the day my scorecard is well within the 3 judges extremes, whereas your scorecard is outside the 3 judges extremes. You disagree with all 3 judges, whereas I am OK with all 3 judges. The difference between Canelo G and the other two fights is that Canelo, as opposed to Chavez & Holyfield, landed the far more impactful "harder-looking" punches in the bout which even you have admitted. Generally the fighter that lands the harder punches wins the fight, or at least is deemed to be in a close fight, to which you deny.

The controversy was much greater in that Lewis Holyfield and Whitaker JCC shouldn't have been draws, that Lewis and Sweet Pea won pretty clearly. More people, for example, have come out and stated that they were OK with the G Canelo draw admitting that it was a close fight than the other two fights. As far as home cooking is concerned, generally that occcurs when someone is fighitng in their hometown. Alvarez isn't even a US citizen and doesn't live in Las Vegas, so arguing that Vegas is essentially Canelo's home town simply because G had never fought in the city before is a huge stretch. Likewise, if the fight was fought in California or NYC, I wouldn't call that Triple G's home town or accuse him of getting a home town decision. If the fight was fought in Kazakhstan or Guadalajara or even Mexico City, then I could see that argument being made.

I don't know why you would doubt a fighter's sincerity over thinking they won a fight. Surely it's rare to find a fighter who admits that they lost after a decision, but after the performance Canelo put in, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have thought he won. I would expect both fighters to claim they thought he won, but interestingly when asked Gennedy didn't seem outraged at the draw, if I recall stated emphatically "this is draw not a loss" or something to that effect

If I recall you scored the 12th in favor of Canelo, but now you're saying that Gennady was more effective in the 12th? Well which is it lol? I'd be hard pressed to find anybody who gave that round to Triple G. Canelo won that round quite clearly, it was target practice early and often and Triple G was pretty much a punching bag the entire round. Canelo comprehensively outboxed Triple G in the 12th and that much is pretty clear. As far as Gennady landing good clean shots or the more effective shots in round 12, you're not going to find anybody that is going to agree with you so I'll just leave it at that lol. The final round was not that close, it was one of the more clear rounds for Saul.

No, Canelo was definitely brilliant vs Triple G. He was brilliant against Khan, Liam and Kirkland too, but of course those guys were easier to knockout than Triple G. The variety of punches landed on G were truly brilliant, he completely outboxed the guy and it was very entertaining. The statements you have made about Canelo pushing punches in the 12th and had nothing on them simply are not factual and they are easily proven by simply looking at the jab that Canelo landed with 18 seconds left in the 12th round, snapping G's head back. You don't get that effect from a pushed punch.

If Gennady had more gas in his tank at the end of 12, than logic tells us he would have thrown more combinations in the 12th than Canelo did, which he didn't. All you have to do is look at the body language of both fighters at the end of the 12th, and it's really no comparison. Gennady was missing wildly and Canelo was still landing hard punches and had his legs under him.

 

Canelo was backpeddling brilliantly? wtF'Nf?!?

 

Defensive masters (Floyd Mayweather, Sweet Pea, Ali, etc) know when to stand toe to toe and when to outbox. They know how to frustrate an opponent by backpeddling when the opponent wants to engage and standing toe to toe when the opponent is not ready to punch. It's called the sweet science. (Hit without getting hit) Saul demonstrated this brilliantly vs Triple G.

 

You have terrible eyesight if you think what Canelo did was comparable to those defensive fighters, or was 'brilliant' by any means.

 

Fair enough. The judge who had it 115-113 for GGG the most credible score card and have no issues with with it. It's the other 2 that raised red flags.

Chavez landed some good hard shots on Whitaker in their fight....but like Alvarez in his fight with GGG...it just wasn't consistent or enough to win. Holy had a hard time getting around Lennox's jab but was able to do decent work in spots. The problem for JCC, Holyfield and Alvarez was they were never in a position where they controlled the range, tempo or pace of their fights. Ultimately they were all fighting their opponents fight and not their own.

I don't deny in truly close fights the man landing the harder punches should be credited with the win...JCC actually landed harder punches than Whitaker in their fight...the problem was Pernell was more active and was the ring general throughout the fight which is the same in how things unfolded in the GGG/Alvarez fight....only Golovkin landed his fair share of hard punches against Canelo.

"Home cooking" shouldn't be taken so literally as it relates to boxing. It just means the favorite or more popular boxer got a gift on the cards or help by the ref. Alvarez was the home team....GGG was the visiting team. Holyfield was the home team...LL was the visiting team....JCC was the home team...Whitaker was visiting. Not literally but metaphorically.

It's definitely not a stretch to call Vegas a home crowd for Alvarez...it has a huge Mexican population and the border isn't too far. But the home cooking metaphor had less to do with the crowd being pro Alvarez vs having the benefit of a bigger more influential promotional company with the more equitable boxer.

I don't believe any fighter who claimed they believe they won a fight that saw a gift decision. Unless it was truly close. JCC, LL and Alvarez said they thought they won but I don't buy it. I don't recall any fighter saying they thought they lost a fight where they received a favorable decision. Maybe one time, but that fight escapes me.

I gave the 12th to Alvarez based on doing better than he did in previous rounds. There were only a couple rounds that I thought Alvarez won semi decisively. The 12th wasn't one of them.

We will agree to disagree on what we deem as "brilliant" as it relates to boxing. I can't say that performance from Alvarez was brilliant, unfortunately. In his fights with Liam and Kirkland, absolutely. The delta between how those fights played out vs how the fight with GGG played out is broad. To say he "completely outboxed the guy" is asinine. He had short lived moments of boxing brilliance but that was eclipsed by Golovkin's offensive effectiveness.

GGG landed a variety of punches as well. He just had ultimate success with the jab that Alvarez simply didn't have an answer for so he continued to pepper him with it...but the straight right, hooks and uppercuts all found their mark on Alvarez.

In the 12th the body language revealed Golovkin was chasing Alvarez and it resembled most of the previous rounds. I don't think Alvarez was out of shape, but his conditioning is always his Achilles heel in fights that go the distance. It was not a surprise to see him running on E by the championship rounds.

 

Marquez himself said it was less money than the first fight, I wonder why they offer less money? Or do you think Marquez was "Terrified " of Pacquiao? Only reason I see he took on a less challenge it's because to wait for them to offer the money fighters deversve for big fights

 

Where did you read that he was offered "less" money than the first fight with PAC? From my recollection it was a career high payday at that time but JMM over estimated his worth and priced himself out of the immediate rematch.

 

Why less? Why more? What cards did JMM have? He got a draw in the first bout that was due to bad scoring from a judge. Of course he wasn't 'terrified' of Pac. But still, he didn't have much of a case to demand anything at the time.

 

What will you say if GG was offered less money for a rematch against Canelo and walks alway? I can bet my house that he's not dumb enough to take that offer knowing he can get even more money! Don't you think?

 

Price himself out? Lol yea he was terrified of Pacquiao