Of the filmed middleweights, who do you think belongs CLEARLY above Hopkins h2h?

I think this one would be a really close fight myself...

 

I remember watching it live and thinking Jones won easily.

 

I agree.

 

For clarification, it alludes to my opinion that LaMotta's era was the tougher overall era than the one Hopkins fought in as a middleweight...and judging by the responses appears to be the consensus here. Other than Trinidad and Delahoya...what other fighters (at the time Hopkins fought them at 160) would have made a mark in LaMotta's era in your opinion?

 

That was a robbery, much like many of Lamottas wins. You seem to discount wins at the 154lb limit, who are generally bigger men than most of Lamottas MW wins

You haven't seen most of those to pick them over Eastman, who was 1 of the most basic of Hopkins opponents. Would most of them beat a bigger/quicker opponent in Vanderpool? Or 1 the biggest puncher of the decade in Echols?

The problem with Hopkins opponents is they didn't get many chances to prove themselves but they did prove tougher challenges than fighters who did such as Pavlik.

No he isn't necessarily, at 145lbs he's about 25lbs less than an average Hopkins opponent. Weight is a massive factor in lower division boxing. Many big MWs in history would beat a 145lb Robinson.

Do you think Napoles is far better than Hopkins opponents too? He was similarly undersized at the weight.

Yes, because Zivic weighed a whopping 148 or so when he beat Lamotta

Most of them are journeymen, when he fights decent opposition his record is average.

Well he didn't necessarily win, the Holman decision was boo'ed by the crowd. Holman was certainly a worse fighter in his 177th fight at the age of 34/35

Maybe the deal he made with the 'mob' that helped buy off decisions to get him his title shot?

Lloyd Marshall didn't consider him elite in his own time.

Even if it was, which is debatable, it's a fluke win and Lamotta should perhaps have been DQ'ed for the throw that likely caused the shoulder injury. TBF Hopkins too should of probably have been DQ'ed or docked points more often than he was.

Lamotta proved himself a very good, tough fighter who could give great fighters tough fights. Hopkins proved himself great. The difference on film is very apparent.

 

During this stretch he fought just about as many top MWs as anyone else ever did. My point is that the there is a MW version of Robinson better than the one we got to see vs. the likes of Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, even Graziano, and others. I'm talking about during his WW World Title reign as far back as 1947. Robinson would fight at MW in between WW Title defenses. Some of the fighters he beat at MW during this time were Robert Villemain, Bobo Olson, Jose Basora, and Jake Lamotta. He also beat Turpin, Graziano, Castellani, Fullmer, Basilio and others at MW despite being past prime.

 

I was actually going to say this.

Granted, when they met, Taylor was prime and Hopkins wasn't, but I'm not sure Hopkins of the Robert Allen trilogy era was really a better h2h middleweight than Hopkins of 2005.

 

I think you should watch it again .. there was virtually nothing between them and Hopkins, while older, was highly inexperienced at the time .. it was a very tactful sort of fight .. even though Roy won the rounds I felt they were all pretty competitive .. that sort of fight ..

 

Monzon wouldn't "rip Hopkins a new *******", but he would win a decision because he was simply a better champion.

 

Yeah, that was the whiskey talking.

I would pick SRR, Mickey Walker, Monzon, Hagler and Jones, jr

 

:good

 

Spider Webb.

 

Taylor beat Hopkins twice and never lost to him although the fights were close, he won fair and square. If Taylor had of only beat him once it does not mean as much.

Taylor is Hopkins daddy and has him in his pocket. More so then any other fighter Hopkins lost to.

 

Was JT clearly better than Hopkins, though? Both fights were very close, and a lot of people on this site thought Taylor was lucky to get the nod the first time around. :think

JT probably always runs Hopkins close, though.

Monzon may not be clearly better than Hopkins, but like JT, I could see his style being the type to drive Bernard crazy just about every time they fight.