Official ESB Brit Forum World P4P Top 15

+1

 

Of course it makes sense.

There's a reason heavyweights don't traditionally get put in the P4P lists, it's because there is no weight limit.

If you're judging people head to head in a P4P sense, then you have to make them the same size. If Wlad becomes the same size as his opponent then he's going to get knocked out by anybody else in a top 50 P4P list.

 

Yeah, but that's not only completely subjective and impossible, it's not how you rank P4P. There's no guarantee Wlad WOULD be stopped by Donaire if he were the same size, as he doesn't rely on his weight. He relies on a tight defence and ramrod jab, something that would work for any glass jawed fighter regardless of size. Cabellero's attributes are augemented by his size, would you not consider him a P4P fighter?

 

Cabellero makes a set weight, it's a completely different scenario.

Wlad is effective, because he's 30 pounds heavier and 5 inches taller than all of his opponents. This means you can't rank him effectively P4P.

 

He also has terrible punch resistance and beat a man who had previously overcome even bigger height/weight deficits before (Chagaev)

Agree to disagree? I would like to hear other posters thoughts on this matter, it's an interesting point.

 

Valuev is big to the point where it actually becomes a disadvantage to himself though.

I just find it hard to champion Wlad as a P4P fighter when his success is all based around massive physical advantages, which defies the point of P4P.

 

No offence, but this sounds like you're just changing your criteria to back up your own opinions. Not flaming you though:good

 

1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Erislandy Lara
3. Floyd Mayweather
4. Joan Guzman (dropped due to inactivity and at new weight)
5. Manny Pacquaio
6. Arthur Abraham
7. Vitali Klitschko (I consider all heavy weights to be the same size)
8. Gamboa
9. Juan Manuel Lopez
10. Chad Dawson
11. Paul Williams
12. Cotto
13. Andre Ward
14. Wladimir Klitschko
15. Hopkins


There are a couple in that list I don't think would be anywhere near my list without steroids.

 

Do you disagree then?

Don't you think Valuev is big to the point where it actually becomes negative to his boxing (against the best)? But even with Valuev, P4P, he's not even in the top 10,000.

 

Being 7"2 leads to having slow reactions.

Put Vitali's reflexes in a lightweight and you have something like Pernell Whitaker.

 

i add a bit of weight to recent (last 2/3 years) activity when building my lists and bradley has had some good recent wins.

what is your top 15?

 

:rofl

He hasn't got great reflexes. All he has to do is lean back slightly and he's out of the way, because he's so big.

 

Surely by that definition, PW should also be slow at 147 then because he's so much bigger than his opponents? Let's face facts, Valuev, although awkward, was never a good boxer; whereas Williams is extremely skilled in a weight class full of smaller men but still looks much better. That's P4P right there- who's skills warrant them a place alongside the crem dela crem of the sport regardless of weight class or size:good.

 

From another thread.

Sure he has his reach which helps and Arreola isn't exactly Joe Calzaghe, but this is far more impressive than the likes of Haye.

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You would not have Donaire in the top 10, but you would have the guy he outclassed in the top 10, who has also went on again to lose? (admittedly at a higher weight)

Also, my P4P lists are based on both accomplishments and potential (80% accomplishments, 20% potential), so I feel Donaire is worth a place in my top 10.

Problem I have with some lists are the high ranking of Calderon - he hasn't looked impressive in his last few fights and certainly looks on the decline.