Ok I give in, Usyk is in the GOAT convo

Usyk beats all HWs past and future lol. Weren't people talking the same about Fury not so long ago.

There's a thread about most overrated, I think Fury's name and maybe AJs comes up.

6 months ago, when it suited, AJ was a joke, now he's being used to validate Usyk's GOAT standing.

People talk some shite when they're emotionally invested lol.

 

Now let's use that same lense on a modern heavyweight resume

anthony joshuas top 5:

- 41 year old, 2 year inactive, beltless Klitschko who gave him the fight of his life, almost got finished but Wlad carried him purposefully

- 39 year old senile Povetkin with a 6 round gas tank who still outboxed aj the majority of the fight until his gas tank ran out

- overrated Parker who lost to lethargic Whyte, KO'd by mediocre slow as molasses no defense Joyce, robbed a gatekeeper in a past prime Chisora and got dropped, needed 2 fights to convincingly beat him, Parker wasn't in his prime and the ref protected aj by not letting Parker in close

- Got obliterated by an obese light heavyweight in the biggest upset of the decade. Needed 2 fights to beat an even fatter Ruiz by running around the ring instead of avenging the loss via knockout (Lewis vs Rahman)

- 39 year old Pulev who did nothing of note beyond the Klitschko era.

Would you like to see Furys next ? His is even worse

 

Utter bollocks.

Other than Ali, which HW of the last half century has a better resume ?

Klitschko
Briggs
Bruno
Holyfield
Tua
Rahman
Grant
Akinwande
McCall
Golota
Ruddock
Mercer

 

No Doubt Usyk's consistency is outrageous he is always honed to Perfection for each fight and his will certainly is there I don't doubt that at all.

I don't know man, when I watch those fighters from the '80s, even though they had drug problems and so forth within the heavyweight division, the skill levels were way way higher. I am just going by my eyes, there seems to be a massive difference as compared to today. Fury and Usyk looked like two old heavyweights in there, slower than they've ever been, and Fury in particular looked absolutely terrible.

Usyk should have knocked Fury out by the fifth round - any halfway decent HW from the 80s would have.

 

Usyk has to be a lock for top 10-15 HW of all time if he wins rematch, beats a couple more contenders and sails off undefeated

 

Holyfield has more depth at HW but he was so juiced he could have entered the Mr Olympia.. he was also a very dirty fighter & used to billy goat opponents.. the all-time great debate is just an opinion , I don't know why people get so wrapped on it but there are quite a few asterisks attached to Holyfield and that alone could be reason enough to rank the perfection of Usyks career over Holyfields, despite having more depth.. Don't get me wrong I am a huge EH fan and he is undoubtedly one of the greatest fighters ever.. but h2h i think Usyk would beat him.. not only because he never looked that great against southpaws but I just think Usyk is more skilled. Where you rank him in any lists is up to you.

 

he's a certified ATG for sure, but no chance is he the goat for beating Aj and Fury

Duran beat Leonard and pushed Hagler all the way. He had his losses sure, like knockout from Tommy and no mas, but he has way more knockouts than usyk will ever have fights,is the goat at Lightweight and fought in a way tougher era spanning 5 decades

Usyk isn't close to that, f..k his zero. It isn't enough

 

If the actual outcome of the fights doesn't matter than De Le Hoya is going to have to be bumped up over a lot of guys ahead of him. I don't like to tear down fighters after a loss, but at the same time, the actual outcome of the fight does actually matter.

 

Yes but Oscar also won alot of meaningful fights aswell vs the likes of Whitaker, Chavez, Quartey, Vargas, etc.

And so did Holyfield.

 

Context matters though the loss to Moorer Holyfield was clearly in very bad health with his heart and disposed of Moorer easily in the rematch.

Bowe is arguably better than Fury so I don't think losing to a prime Bowe is a bad loss, Holyfield was fighting a Bowe in his 20s Fury is in his mid 30s now for reference.

 

I don't agree with Povetkin because Foreman went on to win Lineal title after losing to Holyfield and remained in the top 10.

Holmes was coming off his best performances in years vs Mercer just prior to facing Holyfield.

I would say based on that and the fact they're ATG's they are considerably better wins than say a win over an old Povetkin.

Although I agree with your comparison in regards to Wladimir because he is considered a great Heavyweight and did perform very well vs Joshua.

 

Really i don't count any of Holyfield's losses over the age of 40 and 6 of his 10 losses come when he was over the age of 40.

As you know Holyfield had been in wars since 1986 fighting 15 round war vs Qawi, and after 16 years as a professional fighting in tough battles against fighters mostly bigger than him against the toughest list of opponents at Heavyweight since Ali's era. I think a balanced opinion would probably excuse 6 out of the 10 losses whilst Holyfield was over the age of 40 and clearly past it as I said.

Whilst I agree even when Holyfield was younger he still has losses, but he lost to Bowe who is arguably better than Fury and who was in prime in his mid 20s, the Moorer loss Holyfield clearly had health issues in that fight and disposed of him easily in the rematch Moorer is also a two weight division champion like Usyk, and Lewis is by far better than the likes of Joshua and Fury so I don't see that as a bad loss.

 

If there was real drug testing and Holyfield was completely natural, I'd take Usyk.

If Holyfield is allowed to do his pharmaceuticals, I think Evan Fields takes it.

 

Just to add Michael Dokes was a top 3 ranked Heavyweight when Holyfield beat him which is what I'm saying in regards to how strong and how much depth Holyfield's Heavyweight resume really is.

It is baffling to me how people believe Usyk is rated above Holyfield certainly not for me.

 

Also lost their fair share of meaningful fights too.