Ok I give in, Usyk is in the GOAT convo

Context matters look at my post above.

Holyfield lost to two opponents a prime Bowe, prime Lewis, who are clearly better than a mid 30s Fury and Joshua.

6 of Holyfield's 10 losses come at over the age of 40 after fighting the 2nd strongest list of Heavyweights in history apart from Ali, and after being a pro for 17 years a majority of his losses started to happen.

Again as I said context matters and still Holyfield has many more quality wins at Heavyweight.

 

You are overrating Bowe.

 

How am I overrating Bowe ? Bowe and Fury are ranked similar in Heavyweight rankings except for Bowe was in his 20s and in his prime when we fought Holyfield. Fury is in his mid 30s and past his prime but so is Usyk to be fair so that evens it out.

 

I don't rate Bowe higher than Fury.

 

Well that's opinion based they're very similarly ranked in regards to all time Heavyweight rankings. Except Bowe as I said was in his prime in his mid 20s when he was fighting Holyfield.

Again I'm not taking anything away from Usyk he beat a very good Heavyweight in Fury clearly.

I'm just giving you facts that Bowe was in his 20s and Fury is in his mid 30s now, but as I said Usyk is also in his mid 30s now so that events it out both fighters are a bit past their prime now.

 

Make a thread about it. Most dont see it that way

 

cruz's head is made of concrete, so at least give him some credit for part of why tank had to fight with one hand.

 

No one is saying Holyfield for example would beat Usyk we're clearly debating their resume at Heavyweight which Holyfield clearly has many more notable wins at that weight that's not even debatable.

I also think people are going a bit OTT because of the emotion of a recent fight which fans often do as you know.

It's perfectly reasonable to call Usyk an ATG but saying he is the greatest fighter of all time is ridiculous.

As for your other points I would say its more modern fans showing biased opinions than classic forum members.

If anything everyone in the classic forum has given Usyk his props me included and rate him very highly so I'm not really sure what you're on about TBH.

 

He's not in the "GOAT" (regardless of weightclass) conversation to me.

He very well might be the GOAT at CW (I personally have him at 3 behind Rocky and Evander but can rationalize him being number 1 and wouldn't argue about it).

I think he's the best HW of "this" era hands down. I don't think he beats 06-14 Wlad, there's also a number of HW's from the 70's and 90's and a couple from the 80's I don't think he beats. I think his name has to be mentioned as an ATG though at both CW and HW, just not the top, top at HW.

 

He's probably the best fighter above MW since prime Roy Jones. I think he's passed his best already too, which makes Saturday's win even more impressive.

 

Oh yeah i get it trust me you always get that one fan who thinks everything from yesteryear is always the best, but on the flipside you get fans thinking every Heavyweight now is superior just based on size. And whilst size is an advantage i think you need to look at how fighters much up stylistically, and also taking into account how good that particular Heavyweight actually is rather than just basing everything on size.

I think it's always best to have a balanced opinion and that's what i always try and do, for example Joe Louis is rated well above Usyk in ATG Heavyweight rankings. But i honestly think Usyk is a horrible style match up for him and would win a decision, but then i also think Mike Tyson matches up well vs Usyk and would beat him.

But no doubt Usyk rates highly H2H.

Yeah the kissing the cross conspiracy is absolutely ridiculous that's some of the worst copium i've ever seen, Usyk has often kissed the cross throughout his career anybody who knows about Usyk clearly knows that.

But no disrespect Serge if you see the members actually trying to push that theory you'll see from their post history they're not respected posters. For example one poster who was claiming it was an "inhaler" LOL just recently got banned a rightly so, so that pretty much sums it up in a nutshell to be quite frank.

Agreed on all accounts.

Trust me i don't want those problems Serge i will refrain from coming down to your hood.