OK, what am I missing about Ron Lyle?

Getting a deja vu here.

Not on best night vs best night perhaps, but I probably wouldn't with Berbick vs Thomas either. But in real life he beat him, because there consistency matters. A lot. And Lyle, like Berbick, was consistently showed up in shape.

Theres a lot of talk about the talent of the 80's alphabet champions, but in the end a fighter that looks quite ordinary on film, Berbick, amassed the perhaps best record.

 

Sort of like Bert cooper but to a greater degree

 

I could see Berbick vs Lyle being a crowd pleasing fight. Two mid range to inside fighters who were both 6’2” and around 215 lbs with decent power and chins. Probably be a good scrap

 

Berbick was likely the most ordinary one, and the only reason that he won many fights was because of such consistency. I guess there's something about those Canadians.

 

I agree that there wasn’t anything particularly special about his style or his physique for the time he was fighting in. But he was usually in good shape and came to fight. Sometimes that combination can produce good results

 

The Foreman fight ... he is the only man in history to hurt Foreman like that and almost stop him in a legendary brawl ... in Zaire Foreman gassed a d fell apart mentally .... Ron Lyle hurt him like no one ever saw him before or since .... that aside Lyle did start late, in addition came out of prison after receiving a stabbing so severe he was pronounced dead ... that aside he was gutsy , fight anyone , came off the floor to win (Shavers) and was a huge puncher. On the down side he was not the fastest guy and could be very methodical ... Jimmy Young tied him in knots and his freezing against Ali like he did puzzles me to this day .... the guy took bombs from Foreman and falls apart vs Ali ? Never got that one ...

 

I do think Lyle’s epic battle with Shavers is often swept under the rug. Within just a four month period Lyle rose off the canvas to beat Shavers THEN got in the ring with Foreman and very nearly beat him as well. Two meetings with two of history’s most dangerous punchers inside of a few months and he gave them both hell.

 

Certainly odd, isn’t it. As Magoo mentions, he stood upto enormous punishment vs Foreman, & got off the deck in real trouble against Shavers, too. Some feel the Ali stoppage was quick, but I don’t know. Lyle looked hurt to me. Not sure how, given what he took in other bouts.

 

I’m bemused by anyone thinking that the Lyle stoppage was premature.

Perhaps their view was tainted by the scoring as at the time of the stoppage - Lyle ahead? But essentially, the refs call should be absolute - not relative.

That Ali sent Lyle stumbling back with that single right hand was the most stunning moment - but the punch was worthy of the effect/reaction.

It was an absolute beaut.

Thereafter, Lyle was getting battered and backing away all the while, no return fire.

Ali’s last punch before the stoppage IIRC, was a particularly nasty left hook that snapped Ron’s head well back - a very dangerous signal for the ref.

Would it be fair to say that Lyle was perhaps at his most dangerous best when involved a war - basing that opinion on both the Shavers’ and Foreman fights - when Ron’s inner beast was truly released?

If so, would the type of up close and personal aggression Frazier brought to the table at least see Ron bring out his big guns and really test Joe’s chin?

I like Lyle, quite an intelligent fella but he was a strange one. Definitely had serious power but he didn’t necessarily always punch with the baddest of intentions.

Lyle could box decently but maybe accented too much on “boxing” throughout a match as opposed to putting the pedal to the metal as and when appropriate.

 

Solid puncher with decent technique but his stamina were no good.

 

And was already 35 at that time ....

 

He did have decent technique, but his problem was his inability to deviate from that technique, making him overly mechanical and predictable. Though in his defense, this is common from someone who started boxing in their 30s (or very close to it).

 

Agreed but Foreman won the war with him by attrition. This make us undestand Lyle's stamina were not so good.

 

The 70s is considered the best era for HWs. Thus being ranked 6th in the 70s will get him ranked him higher than the 6th best HW of any other era. Knocking down George Foreman and being ahead of Foreman and Ali on scorecards when they stopped him goes a long way because most people have Ali and Foreman in their top 5 all time HWs. It goes a longer way after Foremans 2nd career thats for sure.

Before Foremans 2nd career it wasn't the consensus the 70s were the best era. So Lyle has benefitted from association. But he deserves it. Lyles got 7 wins over HW title contenders and some other good wins like Peralta and Rondon. Hes got a good 3 top 10 wins from the 70s with Shavers, Ellis and Bugner. Lyle did not stop most of his elite opponents but the same was true the other way. 3 of the 4 times he was stopped were against Foreman, Ali and Cooney(1 of the 2 to stop Jimmy Young).

Looking at Lyles comeback in the 90s his competition was so awful it should have no bearing on his status whatsoever. But people see a 54 year old winning a few fights by early stoppage they don't look closer. Those wins also brought his KO rate over the 70% mark. So if people are rating him higher due to that I kind of agree. Another thing is Quarry has been overrated in recent years and Lyle is the best opponent Quarrys beat so maybe thats part of it?


But where are people ranking Lyle that you think they are being unreasonable? Unless people are putting him in the top 20 the Foreman and Ali fights will take him very far. I have Foreman as my number 1 so I probably have him ranked him higher than most but I think being the 6th best 70s HWs would certainly be top 50 in most peoples eyes. Lyle didn't win a single piece of pro HW hardware even a state title but hes right in the running for greatest HW to never win anything(by anything I mean any pro belts of any kind).