Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

Cus warned Tyson to stay away from Foreman and Mike abided by his recomendation.

 

Also have read several interviews where Tyson himself admitted he knew the George Foreman was his kryptonite.

Tyson was a killing machine, and he did have great head movement, but even in fights where he was killing cans in the 1st round, he'd take right hands and uppercuts to the head. Foreman would find him from the first bell, and do it fairly often. The real question is how Tyson handles it, and thats the factor in the match up.

I think Liston kills Mike. Amazing jab, amazing chin, big power, big strength, and rarely threw single power shots. Literally, everything you needed to beat Mike Tyson Sonny Liston did exceptionally well.

 

Disagree wholeheartedly. When did Tyson counter? He lead. He'd feint the guy on the outside, but it was Mike Tyson throwing first. Floyd countered more.

The big flaw being Tyson closing the gap quickly. I don't see it & never did. He closes gaps quickly on old fighters and then land the combos. When he was the old guy, what happened? Patterson had the better footwork of the 2.

That D'amato system is a dip left dip right system dip left spring up and punch while coming up out of the crouch. It's on a count. And it almost always ends with the dip left. It's a single step when launching the left hand or a 3 step. 2 steps with a right lead and you are squared up. Almost always a left lead jab or lead left hook lead punch system.

1 step does not cover enough physical territory to get inside a Foreman to get the proper arc and angle on punches delivered. 3 steps is just way way too many. And that system requires top conditioning to be successful. Watch what Foreman did to Frazier in that first fight. He shoved Joe's right shoulder with his left hand and made Joe a wide target with a much much wider torso and not in position to launch his sizzling left hook. Didn't try landing a punch, just shove the inside shoulder which twists Frazier. Once Frazier tried stepped in, the powershots were on the way. To where he was moving into
them.


Similar in some ways to what Liston did to Patterson. Sonny didn't shove but maintained his distance with a single jab and let Floyd come to him because he utilizes a going forward style only. Horrible while retreating. Then what Sonny and Foreman did was launch big shots to where the opponent was moving to. Not a punch at them because they'll slip it. But to where they were going to step to. And where that head was going to be. Bang. Caught them clean walking in. They did their homework and followed instructions to a T. And the results were a few of the most devastating early ko's in the history of heavyweight title fights.

That's a main reason Tyson looks much better against guys not very tall. If he can reach them via dipping and just taking 1 step, he's more effective. Tall guys that fight tall are out of range. And Tyson does the same thing and comes in and gets tied up easily. Guys with minimal defense like Smith did just that and nothing more. What bag of tricks does a Smith turn to in a fight? And Tyson could not solve the guy. All Smith has defensively is physical size. He sure isn't parrying punches in there. But if the opponent is shorter and within that arc of the Tyson shots, like a Spinks or Berbick, different story.

Actually, another fight that demonstrates that flaw in the D'Amato system is the Rooney--Arguello fight. Rooney is out there closing the gap dipping left and right and springing up. Landing. Doing what he is supposed to do. In the 2nd round, Alexis launches a right hand to where he is moving to.

 

I don't think the similarities are much at all.

I won't get drawn into a full-blown analysis, but two points :

1. Foreman stood straight up like a robot (or a 'mummy'), his chin hanging out, there to be hit. He didn't bother slipping punches.
Compare that to Liston, who understood the concept of defense, slipped punches, covered up and tucked in, etc.

2. Tyson's chin and power were considerably stronger than Floyd's.


It's a different fight on many many levels. Tyson is a significantly different animal to Floyd, and the differences in styles between Liston and Foreman are even greater.

 

this comparison is not a good one. liston was a gifted boxer, he wasn't just a wrecking machine like foreman - he had ring smarts, was relatively elusive for his size, and could throw combinations! quite annoying when these two are compared...

tyson was considerably more powerful than patterson, and he had a mad chin too...

if anything, tyson struggles more against liston than any other fighter... but even then, he doesn't do as badly as patterson did.

 

I tend to fall in this school of thought.

Plus, the fact that Foreman himself said he really wanted know part of Tyson in the early 90's. But then again, Foreman said a lot crap and contradicted himself often.

 

Great points all around. I will leave you with one thought...The 1991 George Foreman wouldn't stand a chance against the 91 Mike Tyson. However, the 1970's Foreman just may.

 

Had n't cus died before Foreman made his comeback ?? Just for the record,i reckon that Tyson would havce decisioned Foreman in 1991. But a prime Foreman beats a prime Tyson. Foreman too tough.

 

yeah he had. i assume this myth is born out of d'amato's insistence that foreman would have been tyson's kryptonite, in a hypothetical scenario.

i actually think old foreman has a better chance against tyson.

 

i agree with your analysis if we're talking about old foreman, reznick. he could throw well-timed, efficient punches. he could link them together pretty well too (see holyfield fight). young foreman just wouldn't hit the moving target that is tyson's head often enough to prevent tyson's approach. liston was able to throw volleys of effective punches, and someone like that would make more meaningful contact, more often. finally, the stamina of tyson > the stamina of young foreman.

 

AGEED 110%!! thumbsup:deal

Liston VS Tyson would look like -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgILByIk50[/ame]

or

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvv3yD-o3p8&feature=related[/ame]


Big George VS Tyson would looks like -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4-WjL8jIyQ[/ame]

- BUT only 1 round instead of 2.


Foreman Hooooooooooooooook!:smoke:hat:smoke