Old African-American boxer claims

Fulton just recently went abroad and lost to Inoue. Tell Fulton your theory, I would like to hear his response.

 

While in no way disbelieving Armstrong's account, I think without being a historian it would be very difficult to separate legend and exaggeration from reality. Was his memory based on a couple of incidents or did this happen to him often? I think we would need to go through his record, ascertain where each early loss happened and if the opponent was white and then decide what percentage of these losses could have been suspect and due to prejudice, just based on the colour of the opponent and the location. You would then need to try and find reports of these fights and see if they described the results as a robbery and taking into account if the report itself maybe be prejudiced.

I would be interested in examples of results based on discrimination in major fights that received major coverage and if there are any notable examples? I suspect that once a black fighter reached a certain level he was more likely to be frozen out of a shot or avoided rather than be screwed out of a decision, if a title fight.

Obviously many African-American fighters (and people in general) suffered extreme discrimination, I am just saying as far as actually identifying specific incidents in their records it will be quite difficult.

As for fighters avoiding certain countries an obvious example is British fighters taking on continental boxers for the EU title in their backyard. It was said you needed to score a knock out to get a draw if fighting in Italy. While there are some examples of dodgy decisions I suspect that if you actually look at the success rate of British fighters winning the EU title over there it is probably little evidence for this!

 

Depends, I would not jump and say Armstrong would lose his title fight vs Zivic on purpose so to speak because the KKK was outside waiting to hang Henry should he keep the title.

 

I’ll leave race and such aside to relay an anecdote from Tim “Doc” Anderson (who murdered promoter Rick “Elvis” Parker, who Doc believed had drugged him before his KO loss rematch to Mark Gastineu). This is my recollection from a book on the murder that also included Anderson’s boxing career:

Tim was, at best, a journeyman heavyweight. He was among the early opponents who lost to George Foreman and Larry Holmes on their ‘second career’ comebacks. But in 1988 he was coming off a points win over a very shopworn, end-of-career Jimmy Young, and went to South Africa to fight Pierre Coetzer.

IIRC, this was one of those where the fighter goes over for a decent payday but he’s there as an opponent so doesn’t even take a cornerman with him (use local guys, pay them a few bucks, keep most of your purse). He relayed that in the dressing room before the fight someone came in and told him he was to lose by early knockout — in other words, this is a fix and here’s what you’re doing.

Well, Doc, apparently, didn’t like that. He knew he wasn’t likely to win but he was going to try. And he told them as much. So the guy left the locker room and a few minutes later two South African soldiers or policemen (I forget which) walked in and told him he was going to lay down. And he told them the same thing. So one of them hits him square on the nose with the blunt end of his rifle and smashes Doc’s nose open. The guy says, in so many words, you don’t lay down then after the fight you get the other end of this gun.

They stopped the bleeding enough and pretty soon he’s in the ring. First punch reopens the nose and he gets KO’d in two. (He says legitimately.) And he got paid in full without a hassle, never saw the soldiers/policemen again.

I haven’t read the book in a few years so I’m sure I’m off on a detail or two but that’s the gist of the story.

I think that sort of thing goes on from time to time — intimidation on the road with promise of retaliation. Do I believe they’d have murdered him in South Africa if he had won? Nah, but I’m sure he had reason to believe it enough to fear that kind of outcome.

 

I would have to know of specific fights and see some evidence.

 

Yakuza was deep in that crowd. Fulton did the right thing.

 

To be honest I never put much thought in to it. I have read in the past certain referees would give their homie fighters the super long count when knocked down by a fighter from the other side of the railroad tracks so to speak.

Or the ref would let his hometown boy get away with every dirty trick in the book turning a blind eye. Maybe the refs were paid off, bias , incompetent or all three, who knows.

 

Only in relation to the past, I have read that Jack Johnson claimed that he began wearing the “cuffs” during his fight vs Marvin Hart when he sighted someone brandishing their gun as a threat.

However, I haven’t read it often and certainly, on other occasions when Johnson mentioned the bout, he didn’t mention the alleged gunman.

I know Johnson legitimately suffered a lot, being spat on and having lit cigars thrown at him on the way to the ring for two examples - but it doesn’t mean that he wasn’t perhaps embellishing re the Hart fight.

It is also alleged that Langford wore the “cuffs” when fighting Ketchel. I believe it. Full throttle, I would think that Sam could’ve and would’ve flattened Ketchel.

 

Going off memory (which is risky for me), I seem to recall in Clay Moyle's book, it was suggested that Langford deliberately made his 6-round contest vs Ketchel competitive, in the hope it would garner enough interest that a fight for Stanley's MW crown would sell well.

I agree, Langford giving it his all would have likely been too much for Stanley, even over just 6-rounds.

 

Yes, that’s exactly what I’ve read Greg.

I haven’t got any books on Langford but Clay’s book sounds like it would be an excellent addition to my limited library.

 

One of the best I've read mate, highly recommend it.

Clay isn't some sort of biased Langford apostle either, it provides a well balanced and thorough account of Sam's great career.

 

I believe you are remembering correctly from Moyle's book. It was a pretty common ploy to sell a longer, more lucrative fight later.