The 1970 Frazier stops the Foreman of the Holyfield fight in four or five rounds ... way too fast and the combinations would rip him to pieces ...
I do not see the Foreman of the Cooney/Moorer fights beating FOTC Frazier outside of a long shot puncher's chance. FOTC Frazier would likely stop Kingston Frazier for a start. Foreman is highly unlikely imo to KO Smoke with one shot, he couldn't do it against a somewhat faded Smoke in Kingston, nor could he do it against post Manila Joe. Where is the logic in suggesting it is likely that the George of the Cooney/Moorer fights can acheive against peak Smoke, what he couldn't in two goes at the faded versions? George could possibly stun or floor FOTC Joe, but I don't think he would have the youthful energy and vitality to nail FOTC Joe to the canvas as he did in Kingston. I think it is far more likely that Joe takes some shots, has some dodgy moments, but is busy enough to outwork George. I think old George would have real difficulty maintaining the pace Joe wants to set, he would have to jab Joe, clinch, push off and start again. I could see Joe pulling away as the rounds roll by, slowly wearing old George out with hooks to body and head with George's face becoming very marked and his body hurting. If 12 rounds, Joe on points...if 15 the stoppage is more likely, with the ref rescuing George on the ropes taking shots and unable to stem the tide...
I wouldn't pick george. I just think he could spark joe with one punch. The difference in handspeed between old george and young george is negligible. The stamina refers to his power carrying late into a fight not his workrate.
The only decent fighter old george sparked with one punch was moorer. FOTC smoking joe frazier took a better shot than former lightheavyweight Moorer. Foreman still had power of course, he just could not catch the best fighters anymore -apart from that one time (when he was taking a beating 99% of the fight) against an elite fighter 80% less effective than joe frazier.
Really? I did not expect such a simplisitc opinion from you, Janitor. People forget that Foreman had a wealth of experience at this stage of his career. He had a quality, composure, that he benefitted enormously from in his second career, and the one quality (or lack thereof) which cost him dearly against Ali. Old George was patient, picked his shots very well, and still had a formidable jab and immense strength. For a guy with such slow hands, he did remarkably well in his second career, and that's because he had learned to actually box. Foreman was more or less done by '94...his second career had already been underway since '87, and that's seven years of fighting on already old legs...but he was not a man to be taken lightly in '90 and '91. No sir. People point out the Moorer, Morrison and Stewart fights as evidence that Foreman was a hyped up big bag of wind, but they also forget that he took Holyfield the full 12 rounds in a fast-paced fight, and had several decent moments in there back in '91. It was also Holyfield that was hanging on in there at the end, not George. Fighting a much bigger man that is constantly advancing takes a lot out of a guy, and old George was in much better condition than people are willing to give him credit for. Now, Frazier fought like none of these guys. His style was completely different, and he would not box and circle George like Holyfield or Morrison did. Frazier would come right at George. Why do you think Morrison boxed him in the first place? He realised that just going straight at George would be a mistake. Frazier could not fight going backwards, point blank. He never demonstrated impressive survival skills, like holding on when hurt. I feel these are critical factors.
well said, people tend to ignore the fact that the older Foreman, was much more intelligent. The last thing to go is power, IMO he would stop Frazier, but it would him a bit longer than in Kingston, i see Foreman grinding frazier down rather than the other way around.
I think Old foreman needs to have taken out more than just moorer "with one shot" to be afforded that kind of confidence. Remember for all his fights in his second career cooney, cooper, rodrigues and coetzer were not genuine contenders and proberbly were not rated at the time old george fought them. The kind of people foreman was knocking out was the people everyone was knocking out. Alex stewart was a kind of fringe guy as well and that was a MD george did well to get. TYson, moorer and Holyfeild had already knocked alex out. The elite fighters foreman fought in the whole second career were Holyfeild, morrison and moorer. Thats 1-2 and he only scored one knockout in his last 6 fights. Moorer could have fought old foreman 10 times and only gotten KOd that one time. Old Foreman was good value second time around, fans loved him, he was still strong, tough and was a nights work for the very best but was shrewed enough to know he was in a position that enabled him to select well.
Prime Frazier would not have to fight like the people who beat Old Foreman to beat Old Foreman. Frazier would not be getting hit on the way in, he would meet george with a punch and hammer him around. If tiny, losing streak dwight qawi (with a knee strap) was trouble for OLd George prime Frazier would be curtains.
I see FOTC Frazier winning a unanimous decision over Holyfield version of Foreman. I see Fraziers youthful speed being the difference in this one.
Old george was a brave old dude. I see him getting bruised up bad and getting blinded. Hes not taking free shots off Tyson like he did against Holyfeild. maybe Tyson loses focus, gets frustated but hes still hitting george for fun all night and Tyson was not the guy you can let hit you all night. Sure george can push, was strong as a bull, but Tyson would step around him and hurt him first all the time. If Tysons beating george to the punch all the time when is foreman making an impresion before he gets hurt?
I'd bet the house that if george catches joe flush, he puts him out. I'd still favour frazier to win on points because I don't think foreman was quick enough to catch the busy punching machine especially as the distance closes. But where george to land his big shot, he wins.