Old Foreman vs Wlad Klitschko

Deontay Wilder has more title defenses than Joe Frazier and Sonny Liston.

Ten years of beating B & C levellers doesn't mean you can beat one elite leveller. Longevity isn't a skill you can bring into the ring on any given night.
If it was Joe Jouis and Wlad would be H2H the greatest of all time.

Wlad vs Mike Tyson?? Well , WK went unbeaten for 11 years so obviously Wlad
Wlad vs Lewis?? ?? Oh , WK has far more title defenses , so obviously Wlad.

Nobody does this with Larry Holmes because his performances speak for themselves. Nobody has ever brought his dominance over an average era into an argument discussing potential h2h match-ups.

Its only an argument made for Wlad because there isn't much else going for him.
For example , Ike Ibeauchi never had a reign , he never even had a belt , but he dispatched prime undefeated Chris Byrd easier and quicker than Wlad did.
He stopped prime Byrd quicker than Wlad stopped a shot to bits Byrd in the rematch years later. Wlad became Champ both times in his career by beating a guy Ibeauchi brushed to the side with absolute ease. That shows you there was nothing impressive about the era he fought in. It was extremely weak and nobody was as good as an 87-92 Foreman.

Coatzer would have been one of the tops guys during the K era.. He was just as good as Williamson who Wlad struggled with and was dropped by.
When Wlad lucked out on a doctor stoppage , one judge had Williamson up on the cards.

Calvin Brock was even on the scorecards going into the 4th round. He had also outlanded Wlad on power punches at the time of the stoppage. This 6 foot guy was getting inside on Wlad and hitting him around the body and Wlad could do nothing but lean all over his back and wait for his legs to fade out.
Calvin Brock is useless ffs. If he can trouble Wlad , imagine what Foreman would do??

I know Tony Thompson is a souhtpaw , but he's a lot slower than Foreman and hits like a welter in compassion .. he caused Wlad major issues over 11 rounds. Like Brock , he outlanded Wlad on power punches before he was stopped.
Like Brock , Wlad groped and mauled him with illegal clinching all fight long.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...mpson-of-usa-the-picture-id81925563?s=612x612

See^^ Thats a showing of a man in a struggle. Face marked up , cut , holding on for dear life. And thats against Tony Thompson , a guy so slow he makes comeback Foreman look like Lennox Lewis.

 

That’s your opinion I disagree. Lewis was knocked out twice by right hands Wlad’s best punch, where as Wlad’s losses had more to do with pace something that wouldn’t be an issue with Lewis. Styles make fights.
Lewis was in range all night for Vitali and it had nothing to do with age he just wasn’t good at judging distance against a man bigger than him against Wlad that’s fatal. Wlad had more explosive hands and quicker handspeed. Remember Wlad ruled the division as the best far longer than Lewis did and doubled his number of title defenses. Longevity should not be underestimated, speaks volumes when someone can turn back prime opposition time and again.

 

Have a chat with yourself.

 

Glad You accepted my points Cheers!

 

If that's how you interpreted my last post then you're further gone than I'd first thought.

 

Says the man with an astronaut as his handle lmao

 

Or Old Foreman who took Saverese ( close fight ) and Grimsey the distance? It's laughable, the people picking old Foreman just can't explain this stuff away.

Maybe we should ask them to pick between a prime Wlad and these hand-picked opponents?

 

So you admit that Foreman fought a lot of journeymen and it inflated his KO%. Very good. Brewster, Peter, and Sanders were not C level guys That's insulting and being plain ignorant in an attempt to prove your point. They were highly ring ranked Ring Magazine contenders, and champions of a belt. ( Peter #1 Sanders #3 by Ring Magazine ) Brewster was up there too, likely higher than Morrison ever was. Sanders had speed Foreman could only dream of and Brewster was far more dynamic as well. Foreman was a slow waltzer type in the 1990's that Wlad would easily keep his range and unload on. How you can't see this as a boxer is beyond me. Even if Foreman landed a good one, it would not be enough to stop Wald. the proof is in the pudding on who he took the distance!

Old, slow failed to stop multiple mid-level types like Morrison ( Lost ) Stewart ( should have lost ) Savarese ( close ) and Grimsley who was a fraud. And you think he would beat Wlad?! Sorry, outside of a puncher's chance which Moorer gave Foreman ( Wlad is a much smarter fighter ) it's not happening. Foreman had picked his opponents and there were not in Wlad's title opponents class.

Moving the goalposts, now you're using " WBA " ratings, which were there to move Foreman up. Glass City, your stock is going down quickly if you have to use corrupt alphabet ratings as your foundation. Oh, he was ranked 10th by the WBA. Sorry, the is funny! As I said he was easily beaten and KO'd Holyfield before, and Ko'd by two no names before that!! After Foreman beat him three other no names also Ko'd him.

In this case, it shows that Old Foreman was not the puncher you think he was. Once again, he failed to stop chinny slow guys with limited skills! End of.

 

Like I said, I think the argument is done from my part.

It's at the point where sheer belief that a guy who got outboxed for 10 rounds by Moorer has the ability to land a hail mary punch against another guy who is anything but hittable by slow fat guys.

You can't argue belief.

It transcends rational argument, and at that point we are arguing about Superman vs Goku.

To me it seems obvious given common opponents, stylistic meshings and the actual footage, that Wlad would maul him. Other posters believe otherwise, and all I can do is present a rational case and eventually rest that case.

 

I rest my case.

 

You're probably right. All that is left to do is to let them keep digging themselves in the hole, pulling out stuff like oh he was rated 10th but he WBA, an failing to even address the points we made.

I took a look at who voted for Old Foreman. One guy has 5 total posts, and I suspect he's not the only ALT account. But that stuff is up to the mods, not I.

But let us close with Foreman himself. Did not not say Wlad was the greatest of all time?

 

Unbelievable.

You want to try and paint the 70's as lacking in talent pool but you want to glorify Wladmir's 11 year run in Germany over fat plodders, sloppy zero defense brawler, and C level euro bums? One of the most despised eras in hw history by just about any fan, casual or hardcore? You do realize people were celebrating when octopus jab and grab wlad finally lost his title to the equally boring fury?

Think about it. People would rather have an awkward, overweight balding fury who lacks ko power over wladmir just because he was a refreshing change of pace.

And while we're on the subject of quality wins its funny you mention Frazier when he only lost to ATGS (losses he obtained while past his peak days). Wladmirs best opponents (including the ones who defeated him) have nearly half a dozen or more embarrasing losses to horrible opposition.

Just...unbelievable the lengths some guys will go to make their case.

 

There are a ton of alts here

I think he did ... but to be quite honest Foreman was pretty complimentary of other fighters in general. I take what ol' George says with a pinch of salt sometimes, I can't work out if he's being honest or being PR George.

 

And you'll be in the minority as he's a sure-fire first ballot hall of fame fighter. If you don't think Wlad is a top 15 all time great, may I se your list?

You don't care for GGG much either even if he broke the record for consecutive middleweight title defenses an was ranked #1 pound for pound by ring magazine, of course, you think Canelo won two fights vs him too. Or did I misspeak on the last part?

I'm not saying you're a Dino or Herolgee type of poster. You know your stuff, I'm just starting to see a bias that puts you in a minority opinion with modern-day champions. Might you dislike Lomo too?

Foreman was a puncher, okay but he made his name on chinny smaller type of guys. Put him in there vs a boxer who's bigger, more mobile and significant speed advantage, and unless he lands an early bomb, he's in trouble. Stamina for the later rounds? Not exactly. Watch him on film, he's a slow wind up type, leaving himself wide open.

Ali 10 counted him, Jimmy Young floored him and beat him to the point where he thinks he saw god in the dressing room, and Jimmy is NOT fast handed. Foreman's chin level is likely at the level of could be badly hurt by Lyle. Wlad hits harder than Lyle.

Its too bad we never saw Foreman vs Holmes in the 1970's. I suspect Holmes does a Jimmy Young and then some on Foreman post 1976

 

Well lets clean them out to start 2019. Mods, are you up to the task? McGrain can you do this?

A duplicate account should be a warning, then a ban. Not my board. I wonder what Mark thinks?