Old Harry Wills Reaches The End Of The Line

Wills was a very poor mans Jack Johnson. None of the available film footage gives me any thought he had the style or skills to beat prime Dempsey. I don't believe the fight would go three rounds.

 

He already picked up his best win against Sharkey aged 32. He knew Tunney won nearly every second of their bouts minus a flash kd. He simply always had a better shot against Sharkey.

Maybe at he missed his glory days, who knows, he was obviously past prime. Just as Wills was at 38 (and 35 for that matter) active or not

Some papers gave the verdicts to Miske and in the third fight Miske was suffering from terminal Bright's Disease.

 

Wills was strong, well conditioned man. He was not a particularly hard puncher nor was he fast. Kearns said that had he been managing Dempsey at the time of the Tunney fights, he never would have let Jack fight "a runner like Tunney" without two tuneup fights. He said Wills would have been the first. Kearns said that Will's hands held far away from the face style would have been perfect for Jack to weave under and bomb away. He also said is was bs that they could not find a site for the fight, he said he would have promoted it in Havana, Cuba. Langford said Wills was a good fighter, but if I am not mistaken said Dempsey would have won easily. I will have to look for the actual citation.

 

Interesting you ignore all of Miskes losses going into the Dempsey fight, he won something like 2 out of 8 going in and had a year off after. 3 and half years after he fought Dempsey Miske died.

To quote from the biography Billy Miske: The St. Paul Thunderbolt: "A number of years later, in his autobiography, Dempsey would comment, 'During the fight, I began to feel that Billy wasn't giving me as tough a battle as I had expected. He did not seem like his old self.'"

 

You can make any argument but there is no serious evidence that Dempsey made any serious effort to force this fight. Again, I have no doubt Jack would have fought him .. I am not saying was afraid in any way but I do think his mind was in other places at that point in his career and fighting was simply about money ..

 

None really .. just being side tracked ..

as far as the thread .. I think all of this discounting of Wills to be speculation .. he was the only guy to dominate Sam Langford while Langford was anywhere near his prime .. he fought and defeated better opposition that Dempsey .. at 37 he was shot .. I feel to gage him by that footage is not a accurate assessment .. Louis was a shell at 37, Ali was a shell at 37, Holmes that lost to Tyson was a shell at 37, Johnson at 37 was still pretty terrific but he was rare and a Willard was no Dempsey to gage against .. If Dempsey and Wills were to fight in say 1924 after the Firpo fights I'd likely pick Dempsey as he would have been somewhat active ( for him ) and the much younger man .. let's not forget Wills was over six years older .. I'd have loved to see them go at it in 1919 or 1920 .. then it would have been a super fight ..

 

I would definitely say if it happened in the current era, Wills shutting out Firpo would be much better received than Dempsey trading knockdowns with him.

Obviously people would prefer to watch Dempsey but based on those two performances as a point of comparison Wills would receive more credit for a more dominant display. I think he looks brilliant.

Against Paulo he clearly has lost a step and is on the decline, I wouldn't take any indication from it myself.

 

Dempsey - Firpo was Jack's Foreman-Lyle and to me showcased his raw skills ( speed, power, heart, recuperative powers ) as well as his major flaws ( using his head, seeing red when hurt ) ..

 

You post a video of a 38 year old Wills losing, say "his upright style and slow movements do make him look a perfect foil for Dempsey", and you aren't disparaging him? Either you're making a judgement about how you think Wills vs Dempsey would go based on watching Wills vs Uzcudun or you aren't. To draw any conclusions from watching the 38 year old version of a guy who'd been a top contender for nearly 15 years is ludicrous. Would you pick Mike Tyson to beat Joe Louis because Louis looked tailor made for him against Marciano?

So what Wills was ranked 6th ten months earlier? Sugar Ray Robinson was still ranked when he lost to Paul Pender. The year he fought Uzcudun he wasn't ranked at all. And he was 38 years old. Dempsey at that age got the cr*p kicked out of him in a four round exhibition. You say Dempsey had only been boxing exhibitions. Well, the Levinksy bout was just an exhibition too. It's not like he'd come back to challenge Joe Louis in a 15 rounder. I suspect if Dempsey had carried on fighting after Tunney he would he have had a few Uzcuduns too. Imagine how badly Levinsky would have beaten him in a real fight.

 

Dempsey did in fact pursue a fight with Wills once he parted with Rickard. ANY ANY effort by Dempsey to make any fight occur is huge. This was just not done in that era (nor is it done today). Dempsey was adamant years later that he did in fact try to make this fight occur. Fighters fight, trainers train, managers and promotors make fights. Here Dempsey acted as manager and promotor in his effort to make this bout occur. Unheard of and not anything that should be expected from a hwt champion.

The obstacles that prevented this bout from happening were the times and those who controlled the sport. These people did not want to see any Black man fight for the hwt championship.

 

I might disagree with this. It's all subjective but I prefer Dempsey's win over Firpo. Dempsey had a couple of serious scares in that fight but over the course of the fight it was mostly one-sided, and he basically utterly overwhelmed Firpo in less than 5 minutes of fighting. Let's face it, Dempsey was knocked through the ropes but Firpo was rarely off the canvas.
Perhaps the way I view performances puts me in the minority, I don't know.
I just wouldn't class Wills-Firpo as a "more dominant display".
I don't think he looks brilliant either. Looks like a rather routine prod-and-clinch heavyweight schooling.