OLD Heavyweight Champions from Antiquity to Current

I think at the time there were three versions of the world title. The IBU, NBA, and NYAC. Lee won the International Boxing Union version of the world title.

The IBU formed in Paris in 1910, became the EBU in the 40s, but continued to recognize world champions in various divisions until the WBC was formed in the 60s.

The NBA or National Boxing Association was formed in the 20s and renamed itself the WBA in the 60s.

New York State Athletic Commission expanded beyond NY to sanctioning world title fights in the 30s until the WBC formed in the 60s

So, in a way he held the WBC while Charles held the WBA.

 

I tried to add world champions caused by the colorline, but even with nothing but names and years I get hit by the 10k text cap. I know no one recognizes the world colored champion as equal to the racist lineal, but maybe we ought to think about that a bit. I'll try to find a way to squeeze them in somehow unless someone has a very good reason as to why these guys are not as legitimate as Hart and Burns or even paper champs in the present era. I don't mean to knock the lineal title, but for those years I don't see it as any more legitimate than the colored and this is my list so i'm probably going to slide the white guys over a bit and make room for the black. I just figured I'd post the intention and if anyone has a good reason that I might have missed I'd look into it before vexing over exactly how to add them.

 

I didn't actually mean to say Burns or Hart are not legitimate champions I mean to say the moment the established tradition gave way to racism the vacancy fight left room for dispute. I don't understand why Hart is still considered the undisputed champion when JJ was very much in dispute. Likewise with Burns.

I don't see why the ranks for lack of a better term of the white fighters are seen as legitimate ranks while the black fighters are not given the connection to lineal was severed prior to any sanctioning body making boxing practices a formal affair and the informal arrangement of retired champion picking a successor to take on all other claimants gave way to the colorline. It's not as if there was no precedence. Cribb defended his title against Molineaux under the exact same tradition that put Hart in the fight for the vacant title in the first place, the only difference is early 19th England didn't pull any colorline nonsense, they just cheated instead. The lineage itself did not see colorline as legitimate until America controlled the HW crown. I see no reason to respect their racist corruption.

Likewise I see no reason to blame Hart or Burns for having capitalized on that. Those guys wanted to be HW champion too and even if they had railed against the times it wouldn't have made any difference they just would have ruined their own prospects. Johnson upheld the colorline himself for a reason. It was more a product of the era than anything an individual could really control I reckon. I don't blame anyone, just the era, the public of the day.


Everything about the World Colored Champion title seems to mirror championships in dispute. Whether you're talking about Cribb vs Molineaux with the English World Champion title and American World Champion title or you're talking about Heenan vs Sayers with their Silver World Champion title and Gold World Champion title, or the IBU/NBA/NYAC or WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO. Their lineage is even legitimized the same way America's whole claim to the world title was legitimized. By their champion fighting the popularly recognized world champion and winning, all anyone ever needed prior to the colorline. In fact the Cribb Molineaux situation didn't even need a clear winner and who won still in dispute to this day. Did Molineaux win when he KO'd Cribb and the umpire instead of counting the 30 second KO allowed the crowd to flood the ring, punching, kicking, and biting the American until he was in a worse state than Cribb, or did Cribb win when Molineaux was finally willing to admit defeat some time after? It's disputed who won but what happened after isn't, both men were given different version of the title. Both men's title read world champion. Both are considered legitimate champions today.

The way I see it is when Hart was awarded his title he was award the most prestigious version but not the undisputed. I think it's kind of an affront to the black boxers of the time and the actual undisputed champions who really did defend their against all ranks, or gathered their title within all ranks, or at least beat the guy what did. I find it difficult to see Marvin Hart as equally an undisputed or universal champion as I do Tyson. Not comparing anything but the function of ranks and title defenses Marvin Hart is not the same.

 

Posted what I found here: [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/ancient-champions-tissandros-of-naxos.597150/[/url]

These threads should be linked anyway.

 

This is what the applicable section of the list would look like with all Coloered and White World Champions. The Black World Champion, not to be confused with the Colored is included. White World Champion, not to be confused with the lineal. Black and Colored World Champs were created by the colorline. White World Champs were created by Great White Hope tournaments. I don't know that the White ought to be included, racism aside I'm not sure if that title was meant to dispute Johnson's claim or not.

Charlie 'The Black Thunderbolt' Smith - 1876

Joe Goss - 1876

Morris Grant - 1878

Paddy Ryan - 1880

Charles 'Professor' Hadley - 1881

John 'The Boston Strong Boy' L. Sullivan - 1882

George 'Old Chocolate' Godfrey - 1883

'The Great' John L. Sullivan - 1885

Peter 'The Great' Jackson - 1888

'Gentleman Jim' James J. Corbett - 1892

Bob 'The King of the Battle Royal' Armstrong - 1896

'Ruby' Robert James Fitzsimmons - 1897

Frank 'The Crafty Texan' Childs - 1898

George Byers - 1898

Klondike - 1899

James 'The Boilermaker' J. Jeffries - 1899

Frank 'The Crafty Texan' Childs - 1899

Frank 'The Crafty Texan' Childs - 1901

Ed 'The Colorado Giant' Martin - 1902

Jack 'The Unforgivable Blackness' Johnson - 1903

Marvin 'The Louisville Plumber' Hart - 1905

Noah Brusso a.k.a. Tommy 'The Little Giant of Hanover' Burns - 1906

Jack 'The Unforgivable Blackness' Johnson - 1908

Sam McVea - 1909

Jeremiah "Joe" Jeannette - 1909

Samuel 'Boston Bonecrusher' Langford - 1910

Al Palzer - 1911

Sam McVea - 1911

Sam 'Boston Tar Baby' Langford - 1912

Luther McCarty - 1913

Arthur Pelkey - 1913

Edward 'Gunboat' Smith - 1914

Harry 'The Black Panther' Wills - 1914

Georges 'The Orchid Man' Carpentier - 1914

Sam 'Boston Terror' Langford - 1914

Jess 'Pottawatomie Giant' Willard - 1915

Harry 'The Black Panther' Wills - 1916

Sam 'Greatest Fighter Nobody Knows' Langford - 1916

'Big' Bill Tate - 1917

Sam 'Boston' Langford - 1917

Harry 'The Black Panther' Wills - 1918

Jack 'The Manassa Mauler' Dempsey - 1919

James Joseph Tunney a.k.a Gene 'The Fighting Marine' Tunney - 1926

Feab Smith Williams a.k.a. George 'The Leiperville Shadow' Godfrey - 1926

(Lawrence Samuel) 'Loopin'' Larry Gains - 1928

Maximillian Adolph Otto Siegfried Schmeling 'Black Uhlan of the Rhine' - 1930

Maximillian Adolph Otto Siegfried Schmeling 'Black Uhlan of the Rhine' - 1931

Feab Smith Williams a.k.a. George 'The Leiperville Shadow' Godfrey - 1931

Joseph Paul Zukauskas a.k.a Jack 'Sharkboy' Sharkey - 1932

Primo Carnera - 1933

'Bearcat' Obie Dia Walker - 1933

Maximilian Adelbert Baer - 1934

James J. (Walter) 'Pride of the Irish' Braddock - 1935

'Loopin' Larry Gains - 1935


Any thoughts or notes? Any names you feel are invalid for any reason? Should I delete this thread and start over with an all inclusive thread?

I'll continue to post ancient champions and pre 1880s fights, but until I have the list done I can't rightly turn the names on it into links to those threads. When I get to more modern eras I was planning on using standing threads. There is no reason for me to write who Joe Louis was since you lot have. I just wanted to make that intention known somewhere before I got to it that way if anyone has an issue with that plan they can let me know and I'll avoid linking their work or inversely I'll go out of my way to link your work if you're keen to your work linked.