Old heavyweights vs modern heavyweights

We're talking about a fight. Two men punching whilst trying to avoid being punched.

Training facilities are better now, nutrition is better now, medicinal understanding is better now.

But the ability to throw a punch, to slip a punch, how can that change?

You could argue that hand speed, foot speed and stamina should all improve. Which I should, but show me a MW with faster feet than Mike Gibbons. Show me a HW with faster hands than Floyd Patterson. Show me a fighter with better stamina than Marciano.

The reason those haven't improved at the same rate as sprinting speed is because sprinters train how to sprint, long jumpers train how to jump long, boxers train how to box. They don't spend all their life trying to throw punches quicker, or to move quicker or to last longer, they work on all those things as well as technique and mentality.

Combat isn't about who hits the quickest, who moves the quickest, who lasts the longest. It is about a combination of many factors. That's why it can't evolve the same as track and field.

 

If they struggle to do 24 rounds in one year , what makes you think they could destroy guys who are on record fighting a 100 rounds in ONE night?

 

Boxing has obviously progressed from the M.O.Q. and beyond, but it doesn't keep progressing in the way that other sports do.

Today's best fighters would never be classed as the best fighters of all time, in the same way that today's sprinters are classed as the fastest.

Today's MW's aren't the greatest MW's of all time.

Today's HW's aren't the greatest HW's of all time.

There's guys from 40 years ago who would beat them.

 

It gets destroyed when George Foreman returns as probably the least athletic ranked HW of the 90's and manages to knock out a prime undefeated champion 20 years after he last held the belt.

It gets destroyed when a former MW title holder who was boxing in the early 90's is schooling a prime LHW champion to the degree he is doing press ups in between rounds.

It is destroyed when a SFW champion from the late 90's is able to avoid 12 rounds totally unscathed against the current MW "champion".

Boxing has always shown that experience and technique are key to success. Once in a blue moon you get an athlete who can ignore all the rules like Jones Jr and Pep and Whitaker but those men are once a generation type fighters.

 

I don't know anything about chess. But I know that a random top 50 boxer today wouldn't have beaten the best fighters from 50 years ago.

 

The major evolution in boxing is the size of HW fighters.

You could argue that if Fury masters the jab and grab routine that Wlad did, you could argue that he's never gonna be beaten because outjabbing a man with his reach is extremely difficult and getting out of the clinch is hard if you're the weaker man.

That being said Floyd Patterson tried clinching to nullify Liston on the inside and look how that fared for him.

The size of HW is increasing that can't be denied and the effectiveness of their strategy will get to the point where they won't be beaten by HW of yesteryear. But as fighting machines I don't see any man today weighing 180 pounds who I would favour over Jack Dempsey.

 

Great post.

All of your posts in this thread have been great.

 

Precisely.

 

Cheers.

 

Comparing heavyweights today against light heavies and Cruises from the part is like comparing tanks against battleships. Size and punch trumps agility and Stamina. Thats why modern hws often looks so exhausted.

 

Size obvious does matter in any fight. But '' Its not the size of the dog , its the size of the fight in the dog " still rings true.
Who would you rather watching your back in a bar fight Jack Dempsey or some 300 steroid head ? Most sports like Golf ,
Tennis , soccer , American Football and any sport have advanced light years in coaching. But has martial arts. Who would
you rather be your instructor some black belt who earned there degree over a internet course or a kung fu instructor from
centuries ago. Boxing is the same. The masters like Jack Blackburn , Cus' d Amato , Eddie Futch , Ray Arcel are better than
any sports scientist , bio medical scientist and sports pyschiatrist . I know i haven't really answered this question just a
different perspective.
" Principle meant more than anything to him , more than money , more than health, more than his life. He would sacrifice
anything for principle, for what he believed was right " Mike Tyson on Cus ' d Amato.

 

Different weight classes. Different rules...

 

The biggest leap in boxing happened from the 60's to the 80's ...better footwork,more jabbing more scientific fighting with actual more game planning ,nutrition planning /sports science etc..etc of HOW the body breaksdown and when and what day to train what.Boxers become MUCH more athletic and grew as well,this isnt debatable. Heavyweights today who are over 230 are throwing record number punches and are much more active in a fight than yester years fighters,anyone who believes otherwise is asleep. there are also a number of great trainers all around the world,to think because a trainer was associated with a certain fighter doesnt mean NO other trainers cant be as effect...thats stupid.


Yes Cus Damato ahead of his time but if you think other trainers with todays accessible footage thru the modern media doesnt make up for that when non video footage is what the old school trainers had to compensate for well your a fool. One of the best trainers ive seen is McKracken,hes every bit if not better than steward becuase he can train a big Hw to fight any ways,not just tall and using lean tactics to take advantage of ones size as he did with lewis and Wlad....you will see this when Joshua k.os Wlad.


In short ...beleive what you want and even compare karate to kung fu...etc...etc...its pure foolishness to think Past timers were more refined than today. as well as those 185 pounders slower punchers beating up more athletic 6'7 250 pound ones....lol

 

GALVATRON,

You've made some good points. But a lot of HW's I've seen over the past few years would struggle to fight 15 rounds. Theoretically, with the advancements of sports science etc, today's HW's should all be in supreme shape. But they aren't.

Of course today's trainers can be effective, but they haven't got the experience that the trainers of yesteryear had.

Although a guy like McCraken is a good trainer, video footage can't replicate first hand experience.

It depends as your definition of refined and how far you want to go back.

There's many fighters from years ago throughout all divisions who I would favour over many of today's best guys.

 

AJ would easily beat his fair share of the past heavies