Old Time Heavyweights Being More Skilled - Convince Me

Do you mean stylistic differences between fighters of the same era ?

 

Yes. I believe there was less stylistic differences during that period as compared to say the 70's and 80's.

 

There are a few fighters today who'd be successful in any era, Hopkins and Mayweather are the ones that immediately leap to mind, a few years ago you have Jones and Toney, go back a bit farther and you have ears, Leonard et al.
Now, you can skip to any decade and pick out the exceptional talents. I would say that the very best fighters today rival any fighters in history, Picking a fight between Hopkins and Hagler is extremely hard, I don't think anybody here would bet his house on it either way. What I would say though is that as time goes on the really exceptional fighters are becoming fewer in number, as indeed the talent pool itself is and has been for decades, shrinking. The also rans are inferior I would say. Overall the the skillset has eroded imo and if I had to pick one reason it's the inactivity of modern fighters and the infrequency of tough matchups being made, perticularly in the early part of careers.
One thing I really do not get is what all this "modern techniques and nutrition" is or does. What arre the training methods that weren't used even in the 20's? Are they hitting bags and pads, running, sparring, doing push ups and sit ups? I think not. So what are they? Because I've never seen them, unless it's in the Drago training montage in Rocky 4. Modern nutrition, Well what is that? The right diet gives the body all the nutrition it requires, regardless of what you're asking it to perform. When your body has all the nutients it requires I don't see what stuffing oneself with tablets is actually going to do. Although I would like to hear a doctor's opinion on that.

 

No, I cant see that.
Luis Firpo, Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Young Stribling, Max Schmeling, Tony Galento, Jack Sharkey, Al Ettore, Paolino Uzcudun, Al McCoy - they all have distinctly different styles on film.

 

I dont think the talent pool is shrinking due to less physically talented people, but less talented teachers. The talent will always be there, the ability to teach them to do it correctly is whats shrinking. People dont want to invest a lifetime of learning a craft without it paying off, and being a trainer can be a huge let down. It takes a special person to be a gym rat day in and day out.

 

Talent pool is shrinking in the USA but I think in other countries it may be growing. These nations maybe do not have the heritage yet.

I'd also say that MAB, Pac, Morales and JMM can be added to the Hopkins and Mayweather list. From lightweight down the talent looks as good as ever.

The problem seems to be in the marquee divisions Hvy and Middle that we don't have the same number of talented Americans.

I'm sure nutrtion and PE's are beneficial but that doesn't make fighters better than those who didn't have these. It just means the science is better.

 

I agree.
The "modern training techniques" statements are rubbish. The cornerstone of training for a fight is still sparring, and the methods used to achieve optimum fitness and condition (strength, stamina and suppleness) differ from fighter to fighter (as they always have done) and the bulk of the methods were known to the old school anyway.
Often "new methods" are just recycled old ones.

Boxers have always been nutrition conscious. High protein, lots of fruit and vegeatables and salad, and cutting starching carbs to help shed weight is old old wisdom. Fancy supplements wont make much difference to that. If anything, the old-timer heavyweights were far more disciplined with eating.

I think drugs to improve athlete performance have improved. But a lot of the drugs were around years and years ago anyway. And they had no tests.

 

I meant purely the amount of participation, say for example in the depression era boxing was obviously very appealing to a lot of people who had no other way of making decent money without resorting to crime. I know I'm preaching to the choir, I just want you to follow my train of thought. There used to be more boxing going on than there is now, more gyms etc.
Another point is, and I'm not sure if anybody has made it because I haven't read through the entire thread, amateur boxing used to be an awful lot closer to the proffessional game than it is today.

 

The talent pool is not shrinking. The talent pool going into boxing is in America. As far as modern nutrition and conditioning, its related to size. Guys are bigger stronger, and bigger at their respective weights, due to techniques to reduce useless weight, and increase muscle and strength.

 

Could it not be argued that they're bigger at the weight simply because they all cut weight through dehydration, given the extra day?

 

Supplements too. These guys take 10-15 pills a day, drink protein shakes. These nutritionists know how to cut every ounce of fat off a body, and every ounce of water without compromising muscle mass or endurance. Nutritionist wasnt even a word 30-40 years ago.

 

Well I'm surprised by that. I was sure that there were less professional boxers in US than there was say 50 years ago. You are sure about this?

As for nutrition I'm sure it has helped but that's just the science. Like I said I'm not interested in who had the bets diet/PE's. Just in the boxing.

 

As for people laughing off Jack Johnson I don't see him doing that much different to say Hopkins. Put Hopkins in a 45 round fight and it wouldn't be much to choose.

 

Maybe you misunderstood me. I agree there is less pro fighters going into boxing, but not because of qualified atheletes, but more because there is less boxing programs available in the municipalities here in the US. They're just not supported in city spending anymore, even with the good they do keeping kids off the streets. They feel the kids can get the same type of structured supervision through team sports.

 

I was in Puerto Rico last year visiting the local gyms, and most of the "bigger" cities have really nice boxing gyms in their public recreational areas. Part of the reason why you see so many fighters coming out of such a small island.
Caguas, where Cotto is from had a boxing gym in a conference or wedding hall. Its a nice gym but kind of strange that part of it was draped off for weddings and events.
The nicest gym was the Wilfredo Gomez gym in Guaynabo, and thats where a lot of the fighters coming out of PR train, but there was a good six or seven of them over there.