Oleksandr Usyk is vacating his IBF title!

I've never heard the argument that AJ was ever lineal. Care to enlighten me?

 

They're not mutually exclusive. You can hold lineal championship in greater regard while still valuing the concept of unified belts.

Personally I take issue with the IBF being gifted to AJ as he's not really done much to earn it. Meanwhile you've got fighters like Parker taking tough fights having to wait for his shot which he has earned.

There is one thing I think we can all agree on though, Usyk is the top dog of the division.

 

I never heard AJ was lineal neither so I can't enlighten that one I'm afraid.

 

Gifted to AJ?

He has to face Dubois for it. And it's a vacant belt no one really holds in any kind of regard.

The champion is Usyk, nothing else matters.

 

I appreciate the discussion.

But I will say, I don’t believe that anyone has suggested or implied that the belt concept vs the Lineal Title concept are necessarily mutually exclusive.

The concept of mutual exclusivity has nothing to do with the observation that certain fans, per their own choosing, accept one concept whilst excluding the other - or, at the very least, hold one concept in much higher regard.

The crux of the argument is if fans uniformly hold to their criteria and valuations, whatever they be -

You yourself claimed that Usyk fans previously paid no heed to the Lineal Title claim.

Of course, in saying that, you weren’t suggesting that the concepts of belts vs Lineal are mutually exclusive in absolute terms - therefore it doesn’t make sense for you to claim anyone else being under that particular misapprehension.

You said that you’re not a fan of sanctioning bodies. So it didn’t sound like you put much value, if any, in belts.

As I read you, if it was a hypothetical case of just pure Lineal vs Belts, you would favour Lineal - correct?

The original point simply was: NOW that Usyk does hold the Lineal Title, the Fury fans who held that as THE blocker to Usyk’s claims to being # 1 can no longer play that card.

 

Dubios isn't going to be much of a challenge to AJ tbh. So yes, it's a gift. Usyk even presented it as such.

Also, while some of us on the forums might not hold belts in a high regard, the people fighting for them clearly do. They open a lot of doors for professional boxers to make big money. It's rather flippant to pretend otherwise.

Imagine waiting years for a title shot only for AJ to skip the line after losing to the current champ twice (and the guy he's fighting also lost to the current champ) and having tune ups ever since. Give someone who's actually earned it a chance.

 

I don't think that Usyk being lineal champion was ever in dispute or has suddenly lost its luster. It's why I think it's strange take.

It doesn't detract from fans (Fury's or otherwise) being annoyed about the belts splintering prematurely though. Just because you and I don't value the belts much, doesn't mean others don't. Especially the fighters themselves.

If the belts suddenly don't matter, then what's the point in unifying them to begin with?

 

Dubois v AJ is pretty much even money. If Dubois wins does that mean he's been gifted it?

Nah it isn't flippant. Usyk is the champion, everyone knows that.

 

Even money my backside. Bookies have just gotten stingy with their odds. I'd love to see AJ get poleaxed but Dubios is a perfect match up for him.

Yes it is flippant. You pretending belts most professional boxers strive to win (Usyk included) doesn't matter anymore just proves it.

 

Due respect but you’re still misinterpreting what’s been said and that might be the reason you’re perceiving a “strange” take.

For one thing, I never said that I don’t put much stock in belts.

For another, no one stated that anyone was disputing Uysk as being Lineal Champ.

The reference was to anyone who previously disputed Usyk’s claim to being # 1 - people who based their dispute primarily on Usyk NOT holding the Lineal Title while obviously excluding the belts Olek did hold from their own equations.

So, NOW, (ever since Fury was defeated and therefore no longer had the Lineal Title as the “primary” reason for his laying claim to being # 1) those same people can be viewed as shifting from their own, previous devaluations of the belts to suddenly giving the belts far more weight than they did before.

Why unify the belts? Well again, that comes down to the fans who originally put greater stock in the belts - and also the fighters who choose to proactively unify those belts.

Did Fury proactively seek to unify the belts? No. In fact, Fury said he didn’t give a **** about belts.

Fury didn’t value the belts and in accord with that, there were many of his fans who didn’t see value in them also.

 

Dubois stopping Hrgovic is better than anything AJ has done recently so if anything he's been gifted the ibf belt

Usyk is the champion, nothing you say will change that.

 

If he beats Usyk he will be as good as Undisputed.

Usyk has already beaten Dubois and AJ, the two fighters who will be facing each other for the IBF title. So we already know it means nothing other than Usyk being forced to vacate.

We already know Usyk is miles better than AJ and Dubois.

 

Indeed he will, but hard fact is he won't be.

 

Where did you get the impression that I didn't think Usyk was the champ? My gripe is AJ being first in line for the belt against an easy opponent.

 

Your post that I replied to was about everyone going quiet on who the lineal champ was, and your belief it's because Fury haters want to discredit Usyk.

My reply was it was only really Fury fans who went on about lineal because they wanted to bolster Fury's claim in the build up to the fight.

I supported that view by saying there's no debate about who the champion is so no one needs to debate lineage any more.

As for AJ getting a shot at Dubois, the only other fighter as deserving as AJ is Parker and I can understand why Dubois would rather face AJ than Parker tbh. Plus AJ has beaten Parker already.