Oleksandr Usyk > Lennox Lewis

Big Ukrainian · Aug 25, 2022

Dubblechin said: ↑

Honestly, WTF are you guys talking about? You don't know JACK **** about Lewis.

Lennox didn't fight OLD Heavyweights.

When Lewis fought
* Gary Mason, Mason was 28.
* Glen McCrory, McCrory was 27
* Ossie Ocasio, Ocasio was 34.
* Tyrell Biggs, Biggs was 31.
* Derek Williams, Williams was 27.
* Mike Dixon, Dixon was 27.
* Razor Ruddock, Ruddock was 28.
* Tony Tucker, Tucker was 34.
* Frank Bruno, Bruno was 31.
* Phil Jackson, Jackson was 29.
* Oliver McCall, McCall was 29.
* Lionel Butler, Butler was 27.
* Tommy Morrison, Morrison was 26.
* Ray Mercer, Mercer was 35.
* Henry Akinwande, Akinwande was 27.
* Andrew Golota, Golota was 29.
* Shannon Briggs, Briggs was 27.
* Zeljko Mavrovic, Mavrovic was 29.
* Evander Holyfield, Holyfield was 36 for the first fight and just turned 37 the second fight.
* Michael Grant, Grant was 27.
* Frans Botha, Botha was 31.
* David Tua, Tua was 28.
* Hasim Rahman, Rahman was 28 for the first fight and 29 for the second.
* Mike Tyson, Tyson was 35. (Lewis was 36.)
* Vitali Klitschko, Vitali was 31. (Lewis was 37.)

Look at Usyk.

Chazz Witherspoon is a journeyman who was 38 years old when Usyk fought him. And Chazz sucked in his prime. Derek Chisora was 36 and had nine losses. Bellew was a few weeks shy of 36. And you're bashing Lewis for fighting all-time-great heayweights like Tyson and Holyfield when they were 35 and 36?

REALLY?

Hell, Briedis and Huck and Glowacki were in their 30s, too. So is Joshua.

Who fought the "old guys?"
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Are you seriusly bringing bums like Dixon and Williams, journeyman Lionel Butler and light heavyweight Glen McCrory into this conversation?

I mean, guys like Miller or Venter (hell, almost anybody) in Usyk resume are MUCH better than bums like Dixon and Williams

Wig · Aug 25, 2022

Matchroom spin machine in full force.

The feather fisted cruiser whos best win is delboy chisora now has to be an ATG heavy for Joshua to somehow be elite.

MarkusFlorez99 · Aug 25, 2022

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Prime Grant was a bum that got a gift decision against Jeff Wooden for Christ sake.

AJ would aniihilate Grant early and Wilder would do the same.
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Using an earlier fight lol Grant improved smart one.

He went on to beat Izon, Savarese, and Golota. That is legit a better resume than the likes of "top ten" fighters like Parker, Joyce, and Whyte.

fistsof steel · Aug 25, 2022

Top 10 Heavys at the Moment
1...Usyk
2...Joshua
3...Wilder
4...Whyte
5...Parker
6...Chisora
7...Pulev
8...Joyce
9...Hunter
10..Ortiz
Nostalgia or not what a Prime Lewis would do to this lot would be Scary.!!!

Big Ukrainian · Aug 25, 2022

MarkusFlorez99 said: ↑

Using an earlier fight lol Grant improved smart one.

He went on to beat Izon, Savarese, and Golota. That is legit a better resume than the likes of "top ten" fighters like Parker, Joyce, and Whyte.
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Against Golota he was battered from pillar to post, Izon and Savarese were fring conternder at best. Izon? The guy that was outboxed handily by 17-years-old 5-6 Maurice Harris? Or Savarese that was KO'ed in the first seconds of the fight by shot Tyson but went the full distance against prime Grant? Hardly great wins

Big Ukrainian · Aug 25, 2022

fistsof steel said: ↑

Top 10 Heavys at the Moment
1...Usyk
2...Joshua
3...Wilder
4...Whyte
5...Parker
6...Chisora
7...Pulev
8...Joyce
9...Hunter
10..Ortiz
Nostalgia or not what a Prime Lewis would do to this lot would be Scary.!!!
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He would likely lost to Fury and Usyk

MarkusFlorez99 · Aug 25, 2022

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Against Golota he was battered from pillar to post
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And still won

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Izon and Savarese were fring conternder at best.
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Both with better wins than Chisora

fistsof steel · Aug 25, 2022

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

He would likely lost to Fury and Usyk
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I disagree but It's not the word of God...

ShortRound · Aug 25, 2022

Dubblechin said: ↑

Honestly, WTF are you guys talking about? You don't know JACK **** about Lewis.

Lennox didn't fight OLD Heavyweights.

When Lewis fought
* Gary Mason, Mason was 28.
* Glen McCrory, McCrory was 27
* Ossie Ocasio, Ocasio was 34.
* Tyrell Biggs, Biggs was 31.
* Derek Williams, Williams was 27.
* Mike Dixon, Dixon was 27.
* Razor Ruddock, Ruddock was 28.
* Tony Tucker, Tucker was 34.
* Frank Bruno, Bruno was 31.
* Phil Jackson, Jackson was 29.
* Oliver McCall, McCall was 29.
* Lionel Butler, Butler was 27.
* Tommy Morrison, Morrison was 26.
* Ray Mercer, Mercer was 35.
* Henry Akinwande, Akinwande was 27.
* Andrew Golota, Golota was 29.
* Shannon Briggs, Briggs was 27.
* Zeljko Mavrovic, Mavrovic was 29.
* Evander Holyfield, Holyfield was 36 for the first fight and just turned 37 the second fight.
* Michael Grant, Grant was 27.
* Frans Botha, Botha was 31.
* David Tua, Tua was 28.
* Hasim Rahman, Rahman was 28 for the first fight and 29 for the second.
* Mike Tyson, Tyson was 35. (Lewis was 36.)
* Vitali Klitschko, Vitali was 31. (Lewis was 37.)

Look at Usyk.

Chazz Witherspoon is a journeyman who was 38 years old when Usyk fought him. And Chazz sucked in his prime. Derek Chisora was 36 and had nine losses. Bellew was a few weeks shy of 36. And you're bashing Lewis for fighting all-time-great heayweights like Tyson and Holyfield when they were 35 and 36?

REALLY?

Hell, Briedis and Huck and Glowacki were in their 30s, too. So is Joshua.

Who fought the "old guys?"
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He's referring to Tyson and Holyfield who were two of Lewis's most prominent name opponents, not every Lionel Butler and Mike Dixon on his record.

ShortRound · Aug 25, 2022

Wig said: ↑

Matchroom spin machine in full force.

The feather fisted cruiser whos best win is delboy chisora now has to be an ATG heavy for Joshua to somehow be elite.
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"Matchroom spin machine in full force"

Bizarre critique. I've got no love for Matchroom.

"The feather fisted cruiser"

By modern standards that's exactly what Ali and Holyfield were. Having great power is not necessary if you have a wide range of other attributes.

Vegan Beast · Aug 25, 2022

The reality is guys that Usyk's quality of opposition at HW hasn't been great.

AJ is his best HW opponent and it was a horrible stylistic match up for AJ who is mentally shot. Usyk received very little adversity.

Lets wait and see what happens when Usyk faces significant adversity and pressure throughout a fight from someone better than Chisora.

Grinder · Aug 25, 2022

ShortRound said: ↑

Despite turning pro at 23 after 91 amateur bouts and primarily being a boxer-puncher, Lewis couldn't beat 10 of his opponents inside the distance (4 loss streak short notice Ocasio, chinny journeyman Billups, crackhead Tucker, crackhead McCall 1, winless in 30 months inactive Mercer, journeyman-basher vegetarian Mavrovic, faded Holyfield 1, faded Holyfield 2, 20 lbs overweight inactive 5’9 Tua, 8 years boxing experience Rahman 1) and only dropped one of them (Tucker) with 10 of the 34 he beat inside the distance being sub-220 lbs. Lewis never stopped an opponent after the 8th round (strongly suggesting that his stamina/pacing was lacking) and he got one-punch KO’d twice in or around his prime by fringe contenders (a fate befallen by no other reigning champion in any weight class before or since and repeats of his KO3 defeat to Abadzhan in the amateurs; one of Lewis’s 4 listed non-walkover losses to Soviet school fighters out of 11 amateur defeats).

Usyk has an excellent chin (there is no record of Usyk being knocked down with a head shot in his entire 376 fight career) engine, speed, agility, co-ordination, balance, ring IQ, focus, heart, confidence, determination, experience, southpaw stance, holistic skills, is an undefeated, undisputed cruiserweight champion (the first of the four belt era) unified heavyweight champion and P4P No.1.

Manny Steward stated that Wlad was a superior athlete to Lewis, more intelligent, more experienced, naturally bigger, more powerful and better in most technical respects, as well as more athletic, far less injury prone, more experienced, far more powerful and more fundamentally sound than Vitali: the same Wlad that Usyk was able to “boss” and “twist up” in sparring (one of many SHW’s, Vitali included, that Usyk has sparred or fought). Lewis couldn’t get the better of Bruno until Bruno’s engine and chin predictably gave out the 7th, he couldn’t get the better of greenhorn Rahman 1 prior to getting KO’d in the 5th, he was 4-2 down and fatigued against late replacement B-side contender SHW Vitali after 6 when the fight was inconclusively stopped on cuts and he reneged on his post-fight promise to give Vitali a rematch.

Lewis, Wlad and Fury sparring partner, amateur standout and 42 pro fight veteran Scott stated that Usyk was the most skilled boxer he’d ever shared a ring with. Lewis would try to bring the fight to Usyk while being outboxed but he wasn’t able to overpower a number of smaller fighters. The short and stocky warhorse fringe contender Mercer (12 months inactive, 0-1-1 and robbed a 7-9-2 journeyman in one of his two fights in the previous 30 months, knocked down in his previous fight, in the midst of a 0 KO’s in 6 fights streak) outjabbed “prime” Lewis and fought him to a MD, with no rematch materialising. “Prime” Lewis lost 4 rounds by consensus to 37 year old former 190 pounder Holyfield, who had been KO’d by a faded Bowe 4 years prior and was on the cusp of losing to John Ruiz. “Prime” Lewis also struggled with and gassed against the 214 lbs light punching domestic and area level basher vegetarian Mavrovic.

To top it all off, Lewis never fought a southpaw (even dropping the IBF belt to sidestep Byrd) whereas the 6’3, 220 lbs, 13 year unbeaten, 20-0 modern athlete Usyk recorded a historic P4P win by outclassing A-side three belt unified champion KO artist SHW AJ in AJ’s backyard (Usyk’s 10th time fighting away, which he’s done in 7/9 of his championship fights) as a 5/2 underdog in his 3rd heavyweight pro fight and his first heavyweight championship fight. Usyk repeated this feat in the Saudi rematch, which was contested during the Russo-Ukrainian war. Usyk is the best cruiserweight and southpaw heavyweight of all time so Lewis probably struggles even more than Wlad did, who had far more experience sparring, fighting and beating good southpaw heavyweights than any other heavyweight in history.

Usyk wins by UD (if Lewis didn’t duck).
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Lewis is a bad matchup for Usyk - big, strong, cerebral. Lewis lost when he got complacent, and it was one punch KOs in both fights.
I was on the Usyk bandwagon before most of this forum could even find Ukraine on a map, but Lewis is one matchup that is stylistically bad for Usyk. Noone is going to outbox Usyk - noone. To beat him requires size, strength, and some fighting in the trenches. That is LL in a nutshell.

MarkusFlorez99 · Aug 25, 2022

Vegan Beast said: ↑

The reality is guys that Usyk's quality of opposition at HW hasn't been great.

AJ is his best HW opponent and it was a horrible stylistic match up for AJ who is mentally shot. Usyk received very little adversity.

Lets wait and see what happens when Usyk faces significant adversity and pressure throughout a fight from someone better than Chisora.
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Joshua wasn't mentally shot, he just lost his heart against Ruiz. Usyk beats any version

ShortRound · Aug 25, 2022

Grinder said: ↑

Lewis is a bad matchup for Usyk - big, strong, cerebral. Lewis lost when he got complacent, and it was one punch KOs in both fights.
I was on the Usyk bandwagon before most of this forum could even find Ukraine on a map, but Lewis is one matchup that is stylistically bad for Usyk. Noone is going to outbox Usyk - noone. To beat him requires size, strength, and some fighting in the trenches. That is LL in a nutshell.
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"cerebral"

He had good fighting instincts and was well trained but his IQ is low.

Lewis never fought anyone like Usyk. The closest were former 190 pounder Holyfield who had been KO'd by a faded Bowe 4 years prior and was about to lose to John Ruiz and 214 lbs vegetarian Mavrovic, who was Euro level and feasted on domestic level guys. Lewis couldn't stop either over 36 rounds, both gave him plenty of problems. Lewis never fought a southpaw so he's got zero experience here and he'd find his jab nullified, which would make him far less effective. Bruno, Mercer, Rahman 1 and especially Vitali all had plenty of success boxing with him; he would be there to be outboxed by Usyk, who has never been dropped by a chin shot in 376 fights. Over the rounds Lewis's KO/KD threat diminishes as his stamina wasn't great.

Vegan Beast · Aug 25, 2022

fistsof steel said: ↑

Top 10 Heavys at the Moment
1...Usyk
2...Joshua
3...Wilder
4...Whyte
5...Parker
6...Chisora
7...Pulev
8...Joyce
9...Hunter
10..Ortiz
Nostalgia or not what a Prime Lewis would do to this lot would be Scary.!!!
Click to expand...

Chisora 6th? Hunter 9th? Whyte 4th?

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Oleksandr Usyk > Lennox Lewis

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Oleksandr Usyk > Lennox Lewis

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