Omar Andrés "El Huracán" Narváez: the storm, at last, subsides...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Dec 21, 2019.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    A couple of hours ago, the man who co-holds the professional boxing record for "most world title defenses" (with Julio César Chávez González - standing at 27 non-consecutive, FYI) - lost for the fourth, and hopefully last time, at the age of 44, via split decision, to Pablo Ariel "Pablito" Gómez, surrendering his IBF bantamweight Latino belt, held since 2016. What is unique about this one among Narváez's losses is that, with all due respect to his young countryman and wihout meaning to rain too much on his parade tonight - Pablito kind of sucks. Narváez previously has been defeated only by elites at the height of their game (Nonito Donaire at 26-1 in 2011, Naoya Inoue at 7-0 in 2014, and Zolani Tete at 26-3 in 2018 ...with the Donaire & Tete losses both coming at bantamweight, well north of his natural effective weight as Narváez is a natural fly - and not a very big one; he could probably even have made 108 comfortably). All of those were past his prime, and past his 36th birthday, for the lighter weights a no man's land...meaning Narváez - who debuted somewhat late at 25 (because he represented Argentina twice at the Olympics, in '96 and 2000, eliminating Joan Guzmán at the former) was never actually bested in the pros while he was in the age bracket across which most consider it optimal for those in the flyweight range to fight. Granted, he stayed at home for the bulk of his WBO title run at flyweight (and his later one at super fly) and faced a few unworthy contenders, but also more than a handful of very good ones. He was at one time, and for quite a considerable time, a name floating at the fringes of most well-informed p4p lists. The southpaw never had light-switch power but did have an insane workrate (true to his nickname, downright torrential, and he kept this up into his 30's and 40's even, which is all the crazier) and defensive slickness a lot of Mayweather clones (looking at you, Broner) could only dream of wisftully, all without fighting anything like Mayweather. He would stand in front of guys and make them miss thirty punches in a row, but would be attacking on the frontfoot in between, unlike a PBF. He would also do this without getting his legs cemented into the floor, unlike a James Toney. His style was truly unique...and highly effective, ruling 112lbs for over a decade and then experiencing a renaissance at 115 after what had been meant to be his cashout farewell against Donaire (in which he laughed and spoiled his way to a clean and bloodless paycheck, making Donaire look awful while intentionally losing every round to lose a shutout, a move that lost him some fans' respect, while others defended his choice as perhaps a subtle commentary on and rejection of the seedy underbelly of the sport, as guys like him don't usually get the "pot of gold at the rainbow's end" paydays unless they hang around long enough to be fed to some much younger beast and violently kayoed...)

    So what is different about Pablito Gómez? Why does this herald the closure of a legend's storybook? Well, he came in 11-10-1 (1), meaning a loss to Narváez would have put him at .500 and poised to plummet into negative territory. His draws and losses weren't against the cream of the Argue domestic crop, either. Pablito's a scrub, who lucked out in catching an overly proud ex-champ pushing their luck a bit too far - and now the younger man has on his record a win wildly out of proportion with his ability, and his elder has his first and only ignominious blemish. El Huracán tonight fought his Waterloo...the Grover Wiley to his Julio César Chávez. He won't ever be as widely celebrated as his co-record holder (and it might even be a struggle to get him into the IBHOF, as many will dismiss him as some obscure champ in a division - and country - that don't net much global attention, perceived as holding a belt hostage where there wasn't much cash to be generated to attract the best contenders, and whose only hardcore fans abroad were "internet boxing hipsters") but his departure from the sport is a solemn occasion, and deserves to be acknowledged. So long, you rat-tailed maniac.
     
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  2. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Ugly style, not a fan.
     
  3. Chuck Norris

    Chuck Norris Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Narvaez was a very good fighter, it sucks that he always choked in his biggest fights. :chuck:
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    What's absolutely bananas, though, is that you can make a very strong argument for all those 'biggest fights' coming past the point they would have mattered, or counted against his legacy. When he fought Donaire, he didn't belong in the ring with him for a couple of major reasons: he a) was already pretty old for a flyweight and by then already on the slide in terms of speed & reflexes (which are critical to successfully executing his style) and b) was a small fly as it was and really had no business whatsoever at bantam, certainly not jumping straight in with a p4p elite. He clowned and laughed all throughout, basically playing the part of gingerbread man and daring Nonito to catch and kayo him, knowing he still just about had enough legs in him left to run all night and lose a shutout. If anything that reflects more poorly on Donaire's legacy than Narváez's, since the onus was on the Filipino star to walk down & stop his ancient undersized opponent with diminished movement. Narváez actually won the proverbial 'event', or at least passed the 'stay on your feet while collecting a million dollars (or whatever his then career-high purse was)' challenge.

    Then against Inoue, sure it was back at super fly where he more or less belonged ...except he was also three years older still than when he fought Donaire, and Inoue was even younger, fresher and more brutally explosive than Donaire had been.

    Then with Tete, again he is up at bantam, ridiculously, and has already been shattered by Inoue, and has aged for another four years on top of that.

    One could honestly say that while Gómez deserves less than 1% of the credit you might give a victory over a peak Narváez - his previous conquerors don't come anywhere near a hundred percent either. Tete maybe 10%, Inoue and Donaire about 25% each. Narváez during his absolute best years (and for several thereafter) was undefeated. :deal:
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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  6. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    You said it all. You said it perfect.
     
  7. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    It couldn't have been much of a payday to fight Donaire even if it was called that. They starve those little guys. I made a thread here about the biggest purses in each division back in 2015 and Donaire vs Narvaez was the leader for bantams at 725k for Donaire. If Donaire is only getting 725k and that was a division record what was Narvaez making?
     
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  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Credit to the guy, he was skilled and did all that he could in the sport.

    That bout against Tete is still one of the worst ever though. Horrible.
     
  9. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Just looking at the talent that was ranked at the same weights around him from 2002 onward when he was a champ and I'm seeing a couple of missed opportunities.
    Wonjongkam
    Darchinyan
    Viloria
    Arce
    Naito
    Donaire
    Rungvisai
    Inoue
    Yamanaka
    He showed guts and got a piece of Inoue and Donaire but why'd a fight between him and Wonjongkam never come off? They were both highly rated champs at flyweight for years.
     
  10. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    'Cause Pong would've schooled him or won a boring, spoil filled decision.
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Not in Buenos Aires, pal. :sisi1
     
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  12. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Well, he could have fought Pacheco or Parra to improve his standing. I checked Rummy's video on the best flyweights and Narvaez finished 3rd for the 2000s even though he never got rated above #4 in the division. Daisuke Naito and Vic Darchinyan leap frogged over him in the ratings by fighting Wonjongkam and Pacheco. I think Narvaez would have beaten Darchinyan though not Wonjongkam. What I've seen from Wonjongkam has been masterful.

    Those little guys get paid chicken feed. I wonder why they aren't constantly fighting other champions to try and win a rep and make some money? Gonzalez had to put in work but he eventually got his purses into the high hundred thousands, though he probably can't command that much now after a single loss and letting his star cool for awhile. (By the way, he fought yesterday. Go check it out.)

    Anybody know how much Donaire got for fighting Inoue? I think his purses fell off after Rigondeaux and Walters. The winner of the WBSS got a million dollar bonus but I don't know what the purses were.
     
  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    I already watched Choco and Kenshiro and Yaegashi yesterday. That bout tells us nothing about Gonzalez at the moment.

    Anyway, it's more secure and better overall career pay 'milking' a title in your home country, than taking one big payout that has to be divided with trainers, managers etc.

    I agree with you though, the big fights should happen, and part of what I love about the smaller guys is you can see a true love evident for he sport, unlike fat heavyweights or whatever.

    From what I recall, Carbajal vs Chiquita was the highest paid, and Jung Koo Chang got paid to the effect of 60 million Won in his career, which supports your point as Chang is the greatest Light Fly ever, and Carbajal vs Chiquita was the actual superfight of the divisions (They didn't have enough money for Chang vs Yuh).
     
  14. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    You are right. We don't have all of the information on Gonzalez we need. I didn't know that he'd injured his knee so he had to be out for fifteen months. His movement looked fine, but it was only two rounds. He got hit a little more than I liked, but his power is still there. His body doesn't look as in shape as it did, but he did what he was supposed to and put the journeyman away early; so that's one good sign. I'm just glad that he's back. I thought he'd retired and I hated the way his career ended.

    You are correct. Carbajal vs Chiquita was the highest purse for it's weightclass, the first million dollar purse. 60 million Won is only 51 grand. When I looked up Ricardo Lopez and Mark Johnson's purses from the nineties the highest I could find was only about 200k, although one of them might have been 400k. Even today the purses are trivial for flys. The combined purses for the first superfly event on HBO was maybe a million dollars and it had Gonzalez, Inoue, Rungvisai, Estrada, and Cuadras. Four of the six fighters either were or soon would be in the pound for pound top ten. You don't get better value for money than that. Imagine getting Canelo, Lomachenko, and Crawford on the same card for one million?
     
  15. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Being needlessly nerdy, but I checked the inflation rates for Korean Won over the years. 1 won in 1985 is equal to 3.42 won today. So I think he made around '176,411.55 current day United States Dollar'. Still no where near his fighting worth though, considering he's basicaly the best in his weight.
    Reminds me of Manuel Ortiz and the pitiful purses he got despite being a consesus Top 5 Bantam of All Time.