On a scale of 1 to 5 what chance do you give a peak Rocky Marciano of beating a peak Larry Holmes?

Holmes stops him. Too big, too talented.

 

High workrate and good technical swarmer with the power and chin of a slugger who will use that reach effectively on the inside. Dunno what Marciano's reach has to do with anything here when Frazier beat Ali and Tyson beat Holmes (amongst other notable outboxers). The two men Holmes fought that are most similar to Marciano, especially notably Norton, were two that he struggled with immensely. Marciano's never give up attitude and workrate are going to make it a very long night for Holmes.

 

You don't know what Marciano's reach has to do with anything yet you're on about his swarming and inside work when the other guy has a 14 inch reach advantage and is a master at boxing at distance with his ATG jab that's an oxymoron.

 

Short reach is better for inside work and swarming; i am not sure what you are on about tbh. Marciano is simply going to make it a gutter war. Holmes cant keep away from him forever, and Marciano is one of the best fighters ever at getting into the inside. Not saying Marciano beats the **** out of him or anything, Holmes just simply showed more struggle with shorter, high workrate, come forward fighters

 

Well yes obviously but you fail to comprehend how exactly is Marciano going to make it an inside type of fight whilst Holmes is dancing on his toes peppering him with his 14 inch reach advantage.

What high workrate shorter fighters did Holmes struggle with ? I don't recall any certainly not any with the dimensions close to Marciano.

 

1.

 

1 chance …. Marciano most overrated heavyweight champ in history !!!!!!!!

 

I dont fail to comprehend it. Marciano was literally made to fight opponents who were taller with longer reach, it is the entire point of his crouch. He has an explosive dart and dash, can withstand Holmes' punishment, and isnt afraid to take a butchering in the early rounds until Holmes slows down. Holmes cant dance the entire night away. Marciano is going to at least land while coming in, and hes going to force a pace that Holmes doesnt like.

 

But you have no evidence of Marciano beating an elite prime Heavyweight over 200 pounds especially one who has such a huge advantage in height and reach. If Marciano was getting hit alot and floored by old Light Heavyweights then I think he'd struggle a fair bit more against bigger elite Heavyweights.

You still haven't gave me an example of a small Heavyweight slugger troubling Holmes with his workrate I'm not seeing the stylistic issue for Holmes here.

 

You can just look at boxing history to see examples of LHWs ****ing up heavyweights, Marciano beat the best light heavyweights ever at their peak and did not struggle nearly as much as Holmes against Spinks (whom is inferior to say, Charles). Dont know what to tell you. Marciano doesnt need to prove himself when boxing history has already shown that weight advantage has diminishing returns, and that lighter sluggers can challenge bigger outboxers. Look at the struggle Arturo Godoy gave Louis for example. There isnt even an example of Holmes beating anyone as good as Marciano, so i am not sure what more i have to say here. Marciano was never even hurt when he was floored, he was merely off balance both times and wasnt even on the canvas for a combined 5 seconds with both. Not to mention i believe Walcott hits harder than Holmes and is a better counterpuncher than Holmes, regardless. When was Marciano ever dissuaded from his attack? When did Marciano question his ability to move forward?

I can give you a billion examples of a swarmer messing with Holmes or someone who has a style adjacent to Holmes, but you are going to be pedantic over that "smaller" adjective regardless. So agree to disagree. FYI Mike Tyson's reach was only 3" longer than Marciano's, and all of that was probably just shoulder width rather than actual arm length.

 

100% spot on--a "lucky" punchers chance at best--Holmes was just way too skilled for the Rock!

 

I gave him a 2/5 chance - which means I think Holmes would be an overwhelming favourite with his physical advantages but Rocky would battle hard and I think he could last the distance.

 

A 35 year old past it Holmes struggling against Spinks has little to no relevance to Marciano.

1. Spinks was a mover with an awkward style he was also 6'2 with a 76 inch reach.

2. As I already pointed Holmes was past his best and I find it funny you're using Spinks as an argument when Holmes had fought over double the amount championship fights as Marciano by then. And the fact Marciano retired at age 32 yet you're bringing up a 35 year old Holmes which is baffling to me.

You say you can give me "many examples" but you haven't and now you're using Mike Tyson to compare to Marciano which is absolutely ridiculous. Tyson was 220 pounds he's genetically one of the most impressive Heavyweights of all time with blinding speed, fantastic defense, and one of the best combination punchers of all time how that is relevant to Marciano I don't know. And again you're using a 38 year old past it Holmes as an argument which is again you reaching.

 

Merely asserting that your argument that Marciano struggled with Light Heavyweights is stupid. Marciano was probably comparably removed from his prime for the Moore fight as Holmes was for the Spinks fight.

Marciano retired due to a herniated disc in his back amongst a million other compounding factors. Holmes very obviously aged far better than Marciano and was not that far removed from his prime at 35. This is as stupid as saying that Holmes should be in his prime at 35 since Bernard Hopkins was at 35.

Because you brought up reach. Marciano is also fast and a very dangerous puncher with an even better workrate. Tyson is very obviously the better fighter (due to anabolic steroids, I don't regard Tyson as more gifted genetically), but thats why he knocked Holmes out in 4 when I see Marciano winning a close decision over 15.

Because its an example of a fighter with a short reach dominating much longer reaches against fast moving heavyweights with good jabs. As if Marciano's career wasnt enough proof of that. Hell, has Marciano ever NOT given up the reach advantage? Does that matter when it comes to swarming and crowding and cutting off the ring? Do i need to bring up the clip of Tyson himself calling size overrated? Holmes simply doesnt have the power to keep Marciano off of him.

Agree to disagree, at this point youre likely just trying to pull a quasi Seamus and "own" the dude you think is overrating Marciano when i have a pretty reasonable and balanced opinion here, instead of just going "HOLMES 210LBS 81" REACH AND MARCIANO 190LBS 68" REACH SO HOLMES WINS"

Like what prompted you to reply to me specifically when there are other Marciano supporters in the thread? How odd of you! Have a good day

 

I would pick Holmes and call him a 60-40 favorite. I don’t see the mismatch that some on here do. I think it would be a long night and a close decision