On Jimmy Young …

Replying here to voice a bit of my thoughts pertaining to Young, consider what I say here as a bit of a companion piece to my opinion in the Old Foreman Vs Young thread (which I'm not replying to atm, since I'm on the train home).

Young is one of my favorite fighters at heavyweight, a genuine fox turned journeyman/stepping stone as the eighties started to come on, but still a fighter who deserves massive respect. He is no head to head monster, but he could sure make you look bad... No matter who you were, where you were, or what time it was.

His best wins come against:
George Foreman
Ron Lyle x2
Jose Luis Garcia
Jose Roman
Jeff Sims
John L. Gardener
An ok bit of names with one BIG win, but these scalps are mostly outweighed by his huge losing streak that started to come past '81. He had a couple debatable decisions such as against Norton, and in the Shavers rematch, but I don't believe that he beat Ali (he should've been disqualified for some of his tactics, though it was still a good performance).

A talented guy who lies somewhere between insanely underrated and insanely overrated. Definitely not top 50 all time, head to head, but without a doubt in the top 10 when it comes to the 70s.

Even with the potential win over Norton, I'd still rate him below that, and I feel like he'd have lost to Ellis or Quarry had they been in top shape around the time that he was fighting. I think he's just below heavyweight champ level... Gatekeeper level just under Jerry.

 

Young had a solid two-year (or so) run, when he was one of the top heavyweights in the world at that time. The problem was that his career ran 21 years, and in the other 19, he was kinda ordinary.

Lots of guys go on a good run. The great ones tend to be great or dominant the vast majority of their careers.

 

What did he do against Ali that was extreme enough to warrant a DQ? Was he fouling Ali?

 

When on the ropes, he'd put his head/upper body fully through them to avoid punches. He did this numerous times in multiple rounds, it was pretty heinous.

 

Oh ok.
I thought he might have thumbed Ali or hit him low, headbutted him, something that would warrant a DQ. If Ali had done the samething sticking his head outside ropes a few times would you feel the same way?
Or would it be celebrated as a clever tactic? An example of Ali's high ring IQ. Jimmy Young worst offense that nite was that he outboxed an overweight Ali 230lbs who was sluggish. That wasn't Jimmy's fault.

Jimmy Young was never a crowd pleasing boxer, little power but made his style work for that day. He was the only one landing punches. It was a bad decision.

 

Excellent fighter that dramatically improved as his career progressed from his initial bouts. I always had him beating Ali by 2 rounds in a fight I’ve scored at least three times. The head outside the ropes has always been overblown in my opinion by Ali fans disgruntled that Young outboxed a paunchy Ali. Young was never in Imminent danger of being knocked out when he stuck his head through the ropes, he used the maneuver instead of a clinch when Ali overcrowded him. While it was a breaking of the rule and the referee could have warned him more sternly early on, I found it a minor offense.
So any way He beat a 1 loss George Foreman ending his first career and ruining his huge payday rematch with Ali. Terrific win.
He beat top contender Lyle 2x. Good wins.
Fought Shavers to a draw. Solid result.
Lost to Norton in a razor close fight many felt he won.
And for my money beat Ali. Everywhere but officially.
Honestly had Young gotten the nod over Ali you could make a credible case that he should be ranked over Foreman for the 1970s. He would have a win over Foreman, as well as a win over the man that beat Foreman. As well as dispatching Lyle twice far easier than Foreman.
As it is I think Young and Quarry vie for 5th best of the decade after the big 4.

 

The big factor with Young is that he got to the heights he did as an independant. He was not signed to any promoter. He did things on a fight by fight basis. Young and Norton were and are the last of the independants & I wish more boxers would have taken that hard road .

 

Even if you think Young should have been disqualified against Ali, he wasn't. So the scoring of the fight was a complete farce and Young was robbed point blank. Judges gave Ali the first round without him even landing the punch! Young clearly outboxed Ali. Outlanded him almost 2:1 in punches and over 2:1 in power punches. People say Norton III was a robbery. Nah. This was.

 

Why wouldn't sticking your body outside the ropes to avoid punches be worthy of disqualification? Especially when he chose to do it over and over and over?

It IS Jimmy's fault that he chose to use these underhanded tactics. I would've felt the same if Ali did it, and I've posted before about ATGs getting unfair treatment in face of potential disqualification. Go look at the thread I made about Hearns - Kinchen if you want to.

How are you gonna try to tell me that it was a bad decision when you didn't even know about what Young was doing during the fight? Lol

 

This is a straw man if I’ve ever seen one.

 

Not to mention his multiple shots below the belt that went unpunished.

 

I think he was elite for a few years.

He comprehensively beat Foreman.

He had a very good fight vs Norton in a very close fight and Norton would go on to have one of the greatest fights of all time vs a prime Holmes.

He toyed with Ron Lyle.

Those performances alone show he was competing at a high level for a few years.

As I said to you in the previous thread I have no idea why you think the Foreman fight is an aberration but I'm not going to repeat the samething you can see my reply in the other thread.

Young wasn't always consistent and I don't think he was a great far from it. But for a few years period he was competing at a high level and I think he would be a troubling opponent for alot of Heavyweights during his spell between 1975-1977.