On paper, does Canelo have a greater MW win than Hopkins? The curse of a dominant champion?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, May 5, 2019.


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  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    On paper, does Canelo have a greater MW win than Hopkins? The curse of a dominant champion?


    I have said many times that people think a division is weak when there is a dominant champion, but that often isn't the case, it is just that a dominant champion defeats the others in his weight class. If that dominant champion wasn't around chances are there would be evenly matched fights and people claiming it's a tougher division. Make sense?

    So because of how things have fallen, does Canelo in your opinion have a greater MW win than Hopkins with wins over Golovkin and Jacobs or do you think K Holmes was a greater MW win?


    Discuss
     
    bailey, May 5, 2019
    bailey, May 5, 2019
    #1
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Hopkins would have boxed Jacobs ears off.
     
    mark ant, May 5, 2019
    mark ant, May 5, 2019
    #2
  3. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Not disputing that possibility

    The question was about the perception of a win and the issue of dominant long reigning champions
     
    bailey, May 5, 2019
    bailey, May 5, 2019
    #3
    KO KIDD likes this.
  4. 22JM

    22JM Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That didn't answer the question
     
    22JM, May 5, 2019
    22JM, May 5, 2019
    #4
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  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    He has a Habit of that
     
    George Crowcroft, May 5, 2019
    George Crowcroft, May 5, 2019
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I'm not sure, but I'd count the Trinidad win on par with Jacobs. I think it's fairly split
     
    George Crowcroft, May 5, 2019
    George Crowcroft, May 5, 2019
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  7. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

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    Trinidad is a far better win
     
    Richmondpete, May 5, 2019
    Richmondpete, May 5, 2019
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  8. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    I agree with overall concept especially at heavyweight where a guy can’t weight jump

    If a guy reigns a long time it puts a ceiling on the possible accomplishments of the guys during his reign. Often we base success on titles won and champions beaten and if somebody holds the championship for a long time it prevents the guys that he beats from shining and makes them seem like worse opponents than they really are .

    Now performance vs ranked guys, time in the rankings and performance before and after the long reign by the champion can effect perception. This also excludes the other big factor of film and how they look

    Canelo Alvarez has a win over Gennady Golovkin that’s his best win. Danny Jacobs would be a close second followed by Miguel Cotto

    Bernard Hopkins best win is either Felix Trinidad or Oscar De La Hoya. Take those guys out and you are left with Keith Holmes Glen Johnson or William Joppy given they were true middles

    Would Golovkin and Jacobs beat Trinidad and De La Hoya?

    I think ranking boxers all time is a very difficult endeavor and despite being a long time fan and poster on this forum I actually don’t have an all time list or a p4p current list. However rating fighters to me is based on:

    How did they do vs the best of their era?

    Wins over hall of fame fighters and guys who held titles or rankings?

    How long did they reign or stay in the top 10?

    How did they do in their prime? How long was their prime?

    How do they look on film as did how did the opponents look on film?

    Head to head is fun to talk about but in many cases we don’t really know. The sport has changed, the rules have changed, the conditions have changed
     
    KO KIDD, May 5, 2019
    KO KIDD, May 5, 2019
    #8
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  9. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yes
     
    Reg, May 5, 2019
    Reg, May 5, 2019
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  10. The Ogdoad

    The Ogdoad Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Controversial wins don't do a damn thing for arguments backing a fighter.
     
    The Ogdoad, May 5, 2019
    The Ogdoad, May 5, 2019
    #10
  11. 22JM

    22JM Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ggg is better by far
     
    22JM, May 5, 2019
    22JM, May 5, 2019
    #11
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Read what I wrote "On paper"
     
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    bailey, May 6, 2019
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  13. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    What about the Golovkin win?

    Trinidad was a very good P4P fighter but at MW he only had one win at that time and at MW or above is 3-3-0
     
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    #13
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Than who?
    Trinidad was a very good P4P fighter but was a former WW with only one MW win against a full blown MW and was 3-3-0 when fighting MW or above.
    I think it could be debatable for K Holmes as a greater MW win for Hopkins
     
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    #14
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You understand the thread question. There are some that I dont think get it at all.
     
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    bailey, May 6, 2019
    #15
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