On this day 98 years ago Dempsey fought Carpentier it was the first million dollar gate

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Carpentier hadn't beaten a good heavyweight for 7 years and he won that one on a controversial foul !
    Show me whom Carpentier beat to justify heavyweight title shot?
    Here are his previous 6 opponents over the 7 years.
    Battling Levinsky175lbs
    Blink McCloskey one eyed and a career sparring partner46-.47- 33
    Joe Beckett 15-6-0
    Jean Croisilles 2-1-0
    Dick Smith174lbs3-7-0
    Kid Jackson19-12-0
    Which of these wins meant he deserved a title shot against Jack Dempsey?
    Which light heavyweight champions received heavyweight title shots against reigning champions prior to Carpentier?
    Clue don't say O Brien it was a no dec 6 rounder .
    Foster beat no one to justify a title shot at Frazier,but that wouldn't have bothered the Frazier camp as they defended the title against two unranked nobodies and avoided the top ten challengers for 2 years!
    You're getting schooled here.Want some more information? Dempsey's principal sparring partner for this fight was Jack Renault who cut open his eyebrow in training.Carpentier's sparring partners were Italian Joe Gans and veteran Joe Jeannette.
    Conclusion.You are as ignorant on boxing as a box of rocks!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  2. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just because there were better challengers available, that doesn't mean that Carpintier was an unqualified challenger.

    He was the lineal Light Heavyweight Champion, the European Heavyweight Champion, and the White Heavyweight Champion.

    Any one of those on its own would have made him a viable challenger!
     
  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Exactly.
     
  4. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Nope his record over the previous 7 years shows that he was emphatically not a credible challenger, a fact recognized by the promoter Rickard who implored Dempsey to take it easy on him and give the "folks a run for their money".
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What exactly is a credible challenger?

    At any given time, there would be about a dozen fighters, who would be considered a credible challenger for the title.

    Would Carpintier have fallen into this group at the time.

    Absolutely!

    We would like to see Tyson Fury fight Deontay Wilder next, but we would have to consider Adam Kownaki or Kubrat Pullev to be a credible challenger, or even somebody like Bredis or Gassiev if they stepped up in weight.
     
  6. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Does not matter. History dictates that the lt heavyweight champion can be provided a title shot without hwt credentials such as Foster getting his title shot vs Frazier.
     
  7. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Kownacki and Pulev are top ten ranked heavyweights, Carpentier never was.
     
  8. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    This is history AFTER Dempsey not before there was no precedent for a light heavyweight champion challenging the heavyweight champion BEFORE the Dempsey v Carpentier fight.
    You make it up as you go along don't you! lol

    Now again I'm asking, which win qualified Carpentier for a shot at Dempsey's title? Deafening silence!
     
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You can say the same with Ketchel against Johnson.

    It doesn't matter, this defense isn't important on Dempsey resume.
     
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  10. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Harry Greb! That year ,1921 he beat Renault [on the undercard]and previously ,Bartley Madden & Gibbons a few months earlier and ko'd GunBoat Smith whom Carpentier won the spurious White heavyweight title from by dodgy dsq and never defended it!
    He would have been a credible challenger!
     
  11. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson fought Ketchel because the White American public wanted him defending against white challengers ,a black champion defending against a black challenger had no interest for them, they wanted the status quo to change!
    Totally different ball game!
    Isn't important?It was the first Million Dollar Gate and billed As The Fight Of The Century.
    Dempsey was portrayed as the slacker, the draft dodger and booed into the arena.Carpentier the WW1pilot and owner of the Croix de Guerre was cheered to the roof tops!
     
  12. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Again it does not matter. You cannot apportion time frames to a long history in a vain attempt to make a point. Fact is that historically being lt hwt champion can be in of itself enough to gain a title shot. Hwt title fights are typically dictated by public demand and Carpentier was a world famous fighter prior to his bout with Dempsey. Light hwt champion of the world and a multi title holder in Europe. Both Dempsey and Carpentier were superstars when they entered the ring in 1921. STUDY UP. Your European heritage shows in your lack of historical depth!
     
  13. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, because the rankings had not been invented yet.

    If they had been then he would have been champion at light heavyweight, and probably somewhere in the top ten at heavyweight.
     
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wasn`t Foster`s power and reach a lot closer to a heavyweights than Carp`s was though?
     
  15. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am sure he was, but he was not the only credible challenger!

    I don't see how you could find a dozen or so men, who would have been the credible challengers of the day, without Carpintier being one of them.