On this day 98 years ago Dempsey fought Carpentier it was the first million dollar gate

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The bittersweet science page 185

    Dempsey formally accepting Wills challenge and two months later ACTING WITHOUT RICKARD Dempsey signed a second contract to fight Wills.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    This is utter nonsense. Carpentier beat the oft KO'd Wells EIGHT YEARS before. Becket was a non-entity, a clear level below the likes of Miske or even non-heavy Gibbons. Levinsky also offers zero heavyweight pedigree even despite the fact the bout was probably fixed. The Smith result was also extremely tainted as Gunboat had him KO'd by rule and definition but was unjustly called afoul by Corri. Carpentier simply has no heavyweight pedigree. He is a horrible contender.

    By July 1921, Greb had beaten Weinert, Kid Norfolk, KO'd Gunboat in 1, Levinsky x4 , Bill Brennan x4, Fat Willie Meehan and Miske. Carpentier didn't belong in he same zip code as Greb.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Hey, Study Guy, tell us more about how Gob referred to Sharkey's complaining. That's my favorite of your many, insightful lectures.
     
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  4. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Seamust! Kovalev would KO Dempsey, Louis and Marciano?

    That did not work out too well for ya huh?

    I posted two references regarding Sharkeys moniker and its relationship to his complaining of fouls. As typical your education level shows through? Finish high school yet? I’ve heard you clean public lavatories and you’re doing so well your boss will soon let you use a brush.
     
  5. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We all know this FFS! But Dempsey had nothing to do with the attempted promotion ,That is my point!
    Good God you aren't the brightest button in the box are you!
     
  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    DEMPSEY NEVER AT ANY TIME ATTEMPTED TO PROMOTE IT HIMSELF! AND HE DIDN'T SEARCH FOR A PROMOTER MULLINS INSTIGATED THE ATTEMPT!
    You really need to read up on the circumstances surrounding this proposed match because its patently obvious you are totally ignorant of the facts! Read Dempsey's autobiography and Roberts book on him .

    EDUCATE YOURSELF!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  7. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wrong. This match was negotiated three times at least. The latest being 1926. Dempsey searched for a promoter himself traveling finally out to the mid west to sign a contract with Floyd Fitzsimmons. When Floyd’s check bounced Dempsey walked.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Again, find where I stated that outside your decrepit memory. You can't. Thus making it your invention. Congrats on such a wonderful insight.

    And thanks for doubling down on your ludicrous and ill-informed take on Sharkey's nomme de guerre. Brilliant stuff.
     
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  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sharkeys moniker history is very well documented. You just don’t know that history. Like everything else!

    Tell everyone how Kovalev kos Great hwt champions again.
     
  10. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "Utter nonsense." Why don't I at least get credit for just nonsense?

    Had Greb beaten Norfolk or Weinert by July, 1921. I think he fought both later that year for the first time. Am I incorrect in this?

    Gunboat? Carpentier fought him when he was a, or even the, top contender at heavyweight. Greb fought him when he was washed-up and losing to everyone. Even if you are correct about the bad refereeing, Carpentier was a 20 year old light-heavy taking on a top heavy. Who was Dempsey fighting at 20? Who was Jack Johnson fighting at 20?

    Levinsky? All the Greb victories you list are newspaper decisions. Do they matter much if you don't read that particular newspaper. As I pointed out, Carpentier won most of his big fights by KO and so the victories were obvious and decisive to everyone.

    So what was Carpentier's record going into the Dempsey fight. He had lost to top middles Frank Klaus and Billy Papke in 1912 when he was 18! Possibly fans didn't hold those defeats that much against him. Since those defeats he had gone 24-1 with 20 KO's, losing only to Joe Jeannette by a disputed decision when Carpentier was 20. What was Dempsey's record against top black heavyweights again? Perhaps the victory over Gunboat was fluky, but the ref was British, I think, not French, and the fight in London, and what was the ref's stated justification?

    During the nine years between the Papke and Dempsey fights, Carpentier won the European light-heavy and heavyweight championships, and the world light-heavyweight title, all by KO's. Wells and Beckett were after all British Empire champions and Carpentier knocked both out in the first round. What more is he expected to do. It had indeed been 8 years since he KO'd Wells, which meant he KO'd the British champion at 19.

    The Levinsky fight was a fix? The general public seem to have accepted it as legit, off the gate of the Dempsey-Carpentier fight. What is the actual evidence it was a fix? Almost every fight back then was ripped as a fix by this or that newspaper, most of which were trying to get boxing banned.

    Carpentier was away five years for WW1, but still he had a rather sterling record. Now I don't dispute that Carpentier was overrated and subsequent fights would show he was not quite what he seemed, but in 1921 he was only behind Wills as a logical opponent for Dempsey.
     
  11. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Again Carp was European hwt champion and light hwt champion of the world. He was also a multi weight European champion and world famous. Being light hwt champion of the world historically in of itself was merit for a hwt title shot ala Foster, ala Spinks. This is really not a debatable subject in reality.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Do people realize that Usky has just been made the WBO mandatory for Andy Ruiz, without ever having fought a single bout at heavyweight!

    Yes being the light heavyweight champion gave Carpintier a strong argument for a heavyweight tile shot.

    When you add the facts that he was the European Heavyweight Champion, and had significant heavyweight wins before the war, it should be a relatively uncontroversial pick!
     
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Janitor.......Absolutely and unequivocally. I am taken aback by the posters who cannot grasp the reality of that statement. It’s either ignorance or an immediate need to try to degrade a historically great hwt champion of the world.
     
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Once again:

    And another quote:

    “Sharkey was a renowned complainer and this earned him the uncomplimentary nickname of “The Boston Gob” a term at the time used for gossipers and whiners.

    Tex Rickard Boxing’s Greatest Promoter Page 187.

    Again his nickname was due in part to his constant complaining.
     
  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    That quote is garbage. The authors made a sloppy mistake and I am sure they would be embarrassed if anyone brought the truth to their attention. Can't believe everything you read...