On This Day (Jan 22), George Foreman Destroys Joe Frazier for the HW Crown

A great day in boxing history...the crowning of a new champion

 

This is gonna sound controversial and weird but i think this fight actually proves how good Frazier's chin was. Let me explain.

In 40 amateur fights and 37 professional fights (77 total), Frazier was only ever stopped 3x. No matter how skilled or brave a fighter is, if you have an aggressive come forward style and you have a glass or average jaw, it's gonna be exposed pretty quickly, it wouldn't take 20+ fights and a Championship later that people suddenly discover you have chin issues. 2 of those stoppages were to a man regarded as one of if not the hardest puncher of all time. Ali was no slouch and could sting pretty hard with a barrage of fast sharp punches and other than wobbling Frazier once in their 2nd fight and a corner retirement in the 14th round, Ali never had Frazier down or out or badly hurt and stumbling about. It is important to point out that im Manilla, Futch stopped it primarily because Frazier literally couldn't see the punches ftom swelling, not because Ali was bouncing him off the canvas or his legs were shaking.

The only times Frazier was down (to my knowledge) was 2x early vs Bonavena, the 6 downs against foreman, and the 2 downs in the rematch. Again I must both point out that bonavena and foreman were massive punchers. In addition, Frazier's style of constantly pressing forward with an offensive mindset meant he would inevtiably run into somethimg even if he moved his head. It's basic physics. Against bonavena, I attribute the downs more to frazier not being warmed up and not knowing (or caring) how hard bonavena could hit+his swarming style not meshing well with a wide swinging power puncher. Everyone gives fighters like Marciano or Joe Louis a pass for being dropped early by calling them "flash knockdown" or "being caught cold" so why not Frazier?

Next thing i have to point out is that not only did Frazier get hit a lot (he was no defensive wizard), but in the Foreman fight you can see that unlike most fighters, when he's hurt he doesnt back off or clinch, he comes right at Foreman once again. If youve ever sparred or fought, you know that just like in the fight night video games when you or stunned or buzzed, you need at least a few seconds to recover and "shake off the cobwebs". Frazier didnt do that, he literally bangs his fists together as if to say bring it on. He doesn't let his body recover and keeps swinging.

The reason im pointing this out is that fighters who supposedly had "way better chins" than frazier such as david tua or oliver McCall would be more than happy to go into a defensive shell or coast a few rounds when badly hurt or when they run into something big. Now before you grab your pitchforks im NOT saying that Joe Frazier had a better chin than Tua or McCall, im saying if all 3 fought the same opponent (foreman) and were put in the same situation, it would be hard to tell who can take a punch better because tua and McCall might quickly back off and take a moment to recover if they were buzzed and wouldn't allow foreman to follow up immediately the way frazier did.

Combine that with the fact Frazier went down 6x but got up 6x and was never glossy eyed or out on his feet and it's pretty clear Frazier had one hell of a chin. Nobody ever counted him out and he wqs stopped mostly because he wouldn't allow himself time to recover and repeatedly ran head first into the fists of one of the hardest punchers ever. I dont think any heavyweight in history could get dropped hard 3x by foreman and be clear headed and walking on his own 2 feet with no assistance, let alone 6x.

 

Ali made the stadium 100+F ??? He was TRULY the greatest when it came to commanding Mother Nature to regulate the weather,then.

 

I agree. Joe Frazier had a rock solid chin. Ali marveled about Joe's ability to take a punch.

There's nobody that could take clean uppercuts from Foreman like that. George beat the hell out of Joe. The fact that Joe wasnt out cold is proof enough. It was Joe's style and limitations that weren his downfall. Ali didnt get hit with anything close to this from Foreman.

 

Most knockdowns occur when a fighter is off balance. Credit to foreman for having ring awareness and throwing shots at just the right time to capitalize.

A fighter who is floored but gets right back up was more surprised and caught off guard/off balance than badly hurt.

 

I only 'liked' this post because there wasn't a tab to 'love' it with. Brilliant work, Glass.

 

George Foreman was the under dog.

 

Joe knew that George could fight. He won the Gold in Mexico City. He probably didnt know at the time that Foreman had "wrecking balls" in his gloves. Joe thought he was gonna wear the big man down. George was a terror.

 

So out of interest what adjustments could Frazier have made stylewise or in terms of strategy to be competitive with George.
Bearing in mind he fought slightly more cagey in the rematch and still got wiped out.

 

Frazier, Marciano, Tyson and other greats have subtle variations (they would hardly be greats without some) within their style but they are still one dimensional.

Marciano was a come forward fighter. He could vary some things within that but he was still a come forward fighter.

I'd hardly call slowing your pace proving you are not one dimensional. Tyson always slowed after his explosive starts, he could hardly not.

Frazier trying to be more defensive was an outlier and even if he last a bit longer h it certainly made no difference to the result - it just delayed the inevitable.

 

I agree with most of this- very well said.
Frazier was 205 for the FOTC, but I do not think he had a terrible ring IQ. He was built for being a swarmer, & I do not know if he could have avoided enough punishment against Foreman whatever he did.

I also believe that the actual ropes in Zaire were made for a larger ring, that is was no conspiracy.
I never heard that anyone "made" the stadium so hot, unless you were kidding...
And the soft small ring size was a disadvantage to a boxer/mover like Ali.
Though his cheating, pulling down behind the head WAS a marked advantage that never should have been allowed.

 

Frazier's chin was right down there in George's wheelhouse. The uppercuts were where most of his power was. George had much more than power though he had Physcopath mentality. Brushing off Joe's hook the way he did wasn't normal. He was nuts.