Once And For All: Jack Johnson vs. Jim Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 23, 2007.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    This debate has been boiling just under the surface for a while. Few have directly given their opinion, but the questions about Jeffries' retirement and "ducking" indicate that there's definitely a difference of opinion here.

    Besides, it's time to get away from the weird Calzaghe arguments that have been popping up lately.

    Who would have won if this dream showdown had occurred in 1906?
     
  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Here's the film we need:

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    [YT]CauVMvNspIY[/YT]

    [YT]QVa0GNDAP8E[/YT]

    [YT]Pj2jOpoecfc[/YT]
     
  3. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I take Johnson to win post 1903; the only difference from their 1910 match-up would be, it would take Johnson longer, and maybe he would need a honest ref:think if it goes the distance:

    My opinion for a 1906 match-up:

    Johnson W45
     
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    What stylistic factors do you see being in Johnson's favor?
     
  5. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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    Jeffries never struggled with the likes of Hart, a green Jeanette (who almost lost more fights as he won at that time of his career), Dunning, Jackson, etc., yes, I know, when it comes to Johnson, similar to Ali, when he struggled with someone or so, he wasn´t at his peak, or he wasn´t motivated, or he was robbed and so on. But the truth is, that Jeffries dominated his era, he didn´t need the judges to win his fights or so, and he defeated very good fighters like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Sharkey, etc., Johnson´s title reign is ridiculous in contrast to Jeffries. IMO Johnson would slightly outpoint Jeffries until the midrounds, but than he gets a hard counter- left hook and Jeffries wins viá 9th round KO...
     
  6. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jeffries was incredibly strong, and would need to do a lot of wrestling to keep Johnson honest, but a fully motivated Johnson would have a enough size to deal with that.

    Jeffries has shown amazing stamina but again that would only going to get worse as he got older, as long as Johnson was in shape he would be Jeffries equal in this department.

    Johnson would have the edge in hand and leg speed, had a more diverse arsenal and the edge as a ring technician which would be a huge advantage in the last third of a 45 rounder. But Jeffires for a long period in the fight would have the edge in power, and that would keep Johnson honest.

    I see the first 30 rounds being very even, neither being too agressive infact it would be quite boring and cagey.

    But the last third of the fight would belong to Johnson as his edge in speed in both foot and hand kicks in as Jeffries tires and I suspect Johnson would start busting Jeffires up.

    Jim's will would keep him on his feet until the end and that may of been enough for the referee give it a draw/no decision, but Johnson would of deserved the win.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries draws the colour line ,the size line ,and the weight line,refuses to fight unless Johnson comes in under 185lbs.





    Only kidding ,let evry one else have this one Ive been shooting my gob off too much on this subject,Ive even bored myself!
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I would tend to think that Johnson's speed advantage would decline as the fight went on rather than increase--a 45 rounder would probably tax both men's endurance, and cause their speed and sharpness to decay.
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson enjoyed doing a lot of holding. This would be a mistake against a prime Jeffries who was exceptionally strong, and had a wrestling background. Jeff also wouldn't have gotten tired over 15 or 20 rounds when at his best. I pick Jeffries to KO Johnson late.
     
  10. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jeffries was too much of a plodder and was more of a one punch at a time guy where as Johnson was more mobile and can put his punches together better ....Johnson by late stoppage or UD
     
  11. Cachibatches

    Cachibatches Boxing Junkie banned

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    Jeffries actually admitted after there fight that he never would ahve beaten Johnson.

    Or so I remember reading.
     
  12. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson's speed would decline, but being the younger man, I suspect he would have slight edge and his physical advantages would show up more as the fight goes on, thus his speed would become a factor late on.

    I understand wheat you mean, my point would be like an 800 metre race; where it looks like at the end of the race certain athletes are speeding up, but in reality they are slowing down less quickly than their peers.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  13. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Johnson, by close UD.
     
  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Fair enough, but wouldn't that speed-up be an advantage for Jeffries rather than Johnson, since Jeffries' stamina was considered absolutely top-notch in that era?
     
  15. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I have a feeling Johnson would take most of the early rounds, but after 15-20 rounds Jeffries comes on strong and does enough to win, by knockout or so past the 30th. Hard to gauge though, both have not really fought opponents of each other calibre (Johnson more so than Jeffries, though) and rarely of their size. What makes it even worse is the grainy and sloppy footage, although Johnson footage is better than Jeffries-footage (except for his last unfortunate fight).

    I'm not particularly fond of the old style of boxing, but this is one of the most intriguing matchups in boxing history, especially considering they were pretty close in timeline, fighting under similar rules.