Aside from the fact that the 1930 and 1940 censuses make it clear that he was born no sooner than late 1930, it would be miraculous if he was able to get the results he did if he was older than that. It would mean that all of his best performances were given when he was already past his physical peak. When you read George Foreman's accounts of how Liston would disappear for epic drinking sessions between fights, it's amazing that he remained a ranked contender to the end of his life. But when you watch those last few fights, he looks in solid shape and punches quite sharply for a man in his late 30s. Then people seriously tell you that he was in his 40s or even 50s at the time. I don't buy it.
Sonny was without doubt a natural specimen. A born fighter like John L Sullivan, except Sonny always looked good physically. Those Kinds of guys really can turn up and do a job anytime they feel like it. I don’t think Sonny took hard enough beatings to really deplete enough into a truly shot fighter. At the end, He was also operating at a level he knew he still could win at.
You make a valid point, but you must take into consideration how the Census was compiled. Basically some government/state official walked up to the Liston household and asked Liston's illiterate parents about their family: how many members does it have, their names, age, etc. Given that they were illiterate, they could have said Sonny was 10 when in fact he was much older. It's not like the official had a way of assessing the validity of their claims.
Nobody has concrete evidence as to when he was born. IMO his physical traits suggest he was a lot older than stated. All those that were close to him at the time have said that. Even a respected journalist like Jerry Izenberg attests to the fact that Liston was much older than stated. At around 16:00 Jerry talks about the second Ali -Liston fight. He mentions Liston's age there: This content is protected
Even if they didn’t know the age of their own children, The boy who became Sonny was still a little kid during the 1940 census. To pass for 10 or 11, when sonny was likely big for his age, Sonny could even have been younger than 10. To be “much older than 10” would have made a teenager out of Sonny, but there were not any, apart from Leo who at 17 passed for a grown man in those days.
True, but they could have gotten their kids mixed up. Also, if for example Sonny was 13, them saying he was 10 wouldn't be that far off.
It’s more likely only children who are very small for their age can pass for 13 when they are in fact 10. Sonny was famously a giant of a boy.
Bare in mind that boys mature slower than women. I grew around 4 inches (if not more) when I was only around 15-16. Up until then, I wasn't that tall. Also, although less likely, it is possible that Sonny assumed the identity of a younger brother in order to suit his career.
The younger brother was Wesley. Who was born in 1938. If Sonny was Wesley then he was only four years older than Muhammad Ali. It doesn’t work.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I meant that Sonny might have not been born Sonny, he might have been born in the 20s with a different name, then he assumed the identity of one his younger brothers called Sonny in order to suit his boxing career. McGrain said it best in another thread:
Johnny that would only be possible if Liston matured late. But we know he was pretty huge for his age when very young. Hence the story about being bigger than his older Sister who rocked him to sleep. Guys with naturally high androgen levels tend to mature early & be big boned-Liston was a Prime Example. I was recently working the US census. However it was done then, if anything they would believe that Sonny was older than he really was due to his size. The evidence seems overwhelming that he was born right around, & more likely in, 1930. If the date one researcher turned up was true, he was still 33 during his first fight with Ali. There is nothing about a hard living, big drinker persecuted by the Philadelphia police force that is inconsistent with him looking older than he was. Some people look older even without a difficult life or shunned by the public. Others due to the luck of the genetic draw can have a tough time in life & even not take care of themselves & somehow end up looking fit & young. Like some care well for their teeth & others do not, & due to their genes the results they get seem opposed to their dental hygiene. The stories you cited atre broad speculation not decent evidence. Even if Sonny rebuffed his Brother, there are many reasons including interpersonal conflict, history, & Sonny being very moody why he likely would rebuff a Brother. It is really stretch that all the census information & what Liston's Mom said is wrong. There is also no plausible sibling whose identity he could have taken. But you would be an unusual poster here if you can move past Ego & admit that you are wrong.
No I don’t believe he did. The story he used is first rate gobbledygook. Sonny Liston was not “Sonny Listons older brother”. Sonny is a nickname. So There never was a brother officially named “Sonny Liston” within that family. or a birth certificate for a Sonny. There was a Charles Liston a Wesley Liston a Curtis Liston a Leo Liston and a J.T. Liston. There never was a brother named Sonny. He’s saying that there was. So that story doesn’t work. The man known as “Sonny” Liston in that family was Charles “Sonny” Liston. He went to prison as Charles. The mugshot is of that Charles Liston, the yellow shirt bandit, is the youth who became champion as Charles Sonny Liston. He also boxed in the golden gloves as Charles Liston. His older brother was Curtis and his younger brother was Wesley. Sonny said he last saw Wesley in 1958 then lost touch but stayed in touch with Curtis who was just a year older than him and J.T a much older brother who was old enough to have left home before Charles or Curtis were even born since J.T. never made the 1940 or even the 1930 census. This leaves Leo Liston as an unaccounted for brother who did make the 1940 censusWho Liston said “wandered off someplace”. He was born seven years before Charles. But for Leo to become the “real Sonny” by taking the identity of Charles Liston then you would think Curtis and J.T would wonder what happened to the real Charles? And why older brother Leo managed to get arrested and photographed in St Louis as the seven years younger Charles Liston for the yellow shirt bandit case years before he would even needed to lie about his age?
