One of the Chin theories has been gaining popularity on ESB. Endorsed by Zak.

Can you take a punch better when you're a full grown man than when you're a green 20-year-old? Yes, of course.

Does your punch resistance go down after you've been hit in the head to the point of being KO'd? Yes.

Some fighters never get KO'd so their chins are fine into their late 30s.

 

I see.

I guess I disagree with parts of both ideas. In the first case, you are trying to apply a blanket genetic explanation across thousands of men (and women) with completely different genetic backgrounds. Let's face it, some fighters simply are built to absorb more punishment. At the same general stage of "decline", I'd have more faith in David Tua walking through a shot than DaVarryl Williamson.

And in the second case, not all older fighters are easier to hit flush. Frankly, the ones who were always easy to hit flush have probably suffered enough damage to fall into the category of physical decline, if they don't retire early. Really, Roy is about the least representative person to use for this argument, because most fighters are never even a fraction as talented as he was. As we agree, he's hittable today largely because he relied on freakish talent to defend himself far more often than his chin. Most fighters don't have that luxury.

The whole thing is tricky, and completely multi-causal as Zak says.

 

The thing is there is a 'normal' amount of damage that occurs in boxers brains. There have been studies (I can't cite them) showing that boxers accumulate brain damage over their careers. This is the case for NFL stars as well, actually, and generally athletes involved in "high impact" sports.

I think what you are seeing with rapid deterioration of chin in some fighters (as opposed to the average progressive deterioration that can be attributed to aging) is brain damage crossing a certain "threshold" which ruins the brains ability to cope with a shock impact. It's all rather brutal but it's true.

 

My argument with you is not so much that you assign a lesser degree of importance to physical decline in punch resistance in explaining the increasing chin problems of some fighters as they age, but that you seem to wish to reject it without even considering its plausibility. Even if you contend that it is not measurable - which I would disagree with, btw (muscle deterioration, for example, might be a good proxy measure) - surely you would have to admit that it COULD be a possible causal factor even if not measurable. It is that certitude and argumentativeness that I object to more than anything!

 

This is another good point. Besides the point that neuroscience is an incredibly young field of medicine, in cases like the NFL, the damage these men have obviously taken is swept under the table. It's even easier to do in boxing. And these are just the blatantly damaged athletes, not the ones with "normal" damage.

The sad thing is that with the lack of a protective commission for fighters, they (and we) should be VERY interested in the publicity the NFLPA is creating lately in the hopes of getting medical care for retired players. It's not going to protect them, but hopefully it will make athletic commissions more aware in general of the dangers of brain trauma.

I see where you are both coming from now McGrain. It's interesting stuff.

 

There's too many variables to discuss.. how'd they treat their body, weight fluctuations, drugs, drinking, etc.. when did they start fighting.. did they start young, have 100's of Am fights, then move on to the pros? What style did they fight, did they have wars, did they fight the majority of their career not getting hit because they fought cans?

Chin is many things, it's determination, it's willpower, it's strength, it's focus, it's quickness/reflexes, it's all of those things along with mental toughness. Oh, balance and defense as well.. are you deflecting the shot a bit before it lands, are you rolling with it, are you rolling INTO it, etc. Did you see it so you could react, or were you blinded to the punch.

Most of those things go away as you get older, speed, strength, reflexes.. so it depends how strong you were with the other attributes, and every fighter is different.

I'd say the ability to take a punch is half mental half reflex.

 

Getting KO'd involves your brain making contact with the walls of your skull...there's liquid in there that prevents it from reaching the walls.

If your job consists of constantly getting sparked and hit, as you get older that liquid isn't as thick or protective in a sense to guard your brain so as you get older to take too many punches it's much easier to knock you out. It wouldn't take the hardest puncher to knock you out or as hard OF a punch to do the job...


EDIT: This is why rabbit punches are illegal. The distance from your skull and brain is much shorter than other areas...as well as the area of your brain that's being ****ed with...it's very dangerous and could possibly cause serious damage.