One Punch Knockout or Gradual Beatdown?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 10, 2015.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Seamus,

    Their was never a point in Joe Louis' career in which he was not a "good fighter". Despite being far past his prime, Louis was absolutely still a good fighter in 1951. It took only prime ATG fighters to beat him from 1950-1951, and those great fighters(Charles and Marciano) took a lot of heavy punishment from Louis in order to beat him. How could you be rated # 2 in the world and not be considered a good fighter?
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #46
  2. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :good
     
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2015
    #47
  3. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    exactly, Louis reflexes faded but he was still beating contenders, he would have dispatched of guys like Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick that beat Ali and Joe still had power and experience. Dempsey was another one that faded vs Tunney and Sharkey but both men hit the canvas. I think Louis was still better than that Dempsey
     
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Apr 12, 2015
    #48
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Against Marciano he barely threw a right hand. The press report on the Bivens fight is emphatic that he was a one handed fighter. If he was still such a viable force and given that he owed a ton of money, why didn't he continue boxing some power puffs for paychecks after Marciano? Or do we get the same refrain we get regarding all of Marciano's geriatricsÂ… "The Rock destroyed him."
     
    Seamus, Apr 12, 2015
    Seamus, Apr 12, 2015
    #49
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He did what he was supposed to do with Bivins, he easily beat him. That's what good fighters do, get the win. Did Louis dispatch in 1-3 rounds like he would have done in his prime? No. However, he easily jabbed his way to a 10 round decision. You also failed to mention Louis claiming "I came in too light at 203lb, and felt dehydrated and weak the entire fight." Maybe a healthier 215lb stronger Louis would have finished Bivins off when he had Bivins reeling in the 10th.

    You think Louis was only an average fighter in 1950? You think an average fighter could have defeated a 1950 Joe Louis? You think an average fighter could have pummeled Ezzard Charle's face into being barely recognizable?

    A fighter whose rated # 2 in the world, is a good fighter.

    Because his goal was to reclaim the heavyweight championship. When he lost to Marciano emphatically, he knew he had no shot at regaining the thrown. A Louis-Charles rematch was scheduled to happen in Sept of 51, but Walcott ruined those plans by flattening Charles. So Louis had to wait for Walcott to give Charles a return go before getting a shot at Walcott's title.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #50
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Are you suggesting it's because even powder puffs would have beat him ?
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 12, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 12, 2015
    #51
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    No, he did not. He did throw some right hands, not a lot. He threw quite a few left hooks, which he has a very powerful one. He froze Marciano late in round 1 with a straight right-left hook combination. Again, my argument is that Louis of 51 was far past his prime but still a good fighter, capable of beating other top 10 contenders.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #52
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    So, being dehydrated only effected his right hand? He didn't throw a meaningful right the entire fight. The presser called him a "one-handed fighter", the same as he appeared against Marciano. His timing and reflexes were shot. His right hand non-existent.

    How highly was Ali ranked in 1978? What were some people saying about him when he came back to fight Holmes? How did any of that jive with reality?


    This doesn't answer the question in the slightest. He owed half a million to the IRS. The only way he could make any money was fighting... He had a huge name and was something of a national hero. And he couldn't capitalize on this cache to fight a few more times as a farewell tour at least?
     
    Seamus, Apr 12, 2015
    Seamus, Apr 12, 2015
    #53
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He just tried that and got matched with Marciano, who almost killed him. And, yes, he still owed money. He was probably already brain damaged, I'm not sure what you want .... Louis's execution ? :lol:

    And, later, he tried wrestling, and almost got killed too.

    He's long dead now though, if that makes you happy. :lol:
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 12, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 12, 2015
    #54
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    If you want to go by press...The fight before, against Savold, praised Louis was looking "The best Louis in years." Even Charles Manager was so impressed by Louis performance that he stated "I may keep him away from you Joe, you looked too darn good." Louis stated "I haven't felt this good since the second Conn fight, all those tuneups going the distance did it."

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=bOUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3450,6480524&hl=en


    The Free Lance Star described the knockout blow "As Beautiful a left hook as you'll ever see"

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=xYoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2438,1689557&hl=en


    Now once again, my only argument here is that Joe Louis was a good fighter in 1950. Something you are arguing against.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #55
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Louis won 8 fights in a row, 2 against ring magazine top 10 contenders. How many fights in a row did Ali win prior to fighting Holmes?
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #56
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Seamus,

    Name me the heavyweights you considered "good" fighters in 1950-1951. I want to hear your list.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #57
  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Goose is the biggest baby on this board .. starts **** all the time and cries when he gets it back .. :lol:
     
    he grant, Apr 12, 2015
    he grant, Apr 12, 2015
    #58
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Apr 12, 2015
    #59
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It was a nasty shot that landed just right .. the thread is another Marciano's power thread which is fine .. nothing changes though .. there is no doubt that Rocky was a very hard punching cruiserweight who kept most of his power as the rounds passed unlike many guys that lost steam ..
     
    he grant, Apr 12, 2015
    he grant, Apr 12, 2015
    #60
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