One Punch Knockout or Gradual Beatdown?

Oma was a part time tank artist. Lowry was a defensively minded club fighter .

You keep bringing out these light heavyweights, can't you find a heavyweight of substance?

 

I'll take your word for it without even checking the links it isn't that important to me. I have a growing sense here of you just being interested in tit for tat exchanges , tedious and so deja vu.

 

He was a trial horse. I don't think Mauriello was rated in1947 ,he was rated in1946, before he fought Louis.

 

As if I give a good f*ck what you think.:-(

 

Whitlock was a light-heavyweight.

I would expect that most of his better opponents were in that class.

 

"1940-1945"

I was posting on the post-war era, the late forties, which I would consider 1946-1949.

Obviously, during the war many of the top fighters were in the service, but they came back, Charles the most important.

"If Gus Lesnevich is the division champion from 1941 to 1947 it says it all as he's not even a top 25 ATG at light heavy . . ."

Actually not at all because he and Freddie Mills (and I hate to be this critical) were basically cheese champions.

Lesnevich is not only not in the top 25 all time, but isn't in the top six of the 1940's.

Who were better?

Charles, Moore, Maxim, Bivins, Conn, and Harold Johnson.

Conn defeated Lesnevich twice for the championship in 1940. Although he could still make the light-heavy limit, Conn gave up the title to challenge Louis.

With the title vacant, Lesnevich managed to become champion in 1941 & successfully defended twice against the 18 year old Tami Mauriello. In 1942 he lost to Jimmy Bivins who was 176 for this fight, so Gus held onto his title after this overweight match and then went into the service for the duration.

In 1946 Lesnevich came back and defeated Freddie Mills. Mills was probably not one of the top guys either, but he was the British champion, so okay. In 1947 Gus got the break of defending twice against the phony Billy Fox, whose record was apparently mainly fixes.

In 1948, Lesnevich again defended against Mills who had been slaughtered by Lloyd Marshall in 1947, but lost, and then followed with losses to Maxim and Charles.

So, the bottom line--Lesnevich fought five fights against the top men of the decade--Charles, Maxim, Bivins, and Conn and went 0-5.

Mills faced Maxim and Marshall, and lost by KO's to both of them.

So between them the champions were 0-7 against the better competition of the decade, and fortunately for them, neither faced Moore.

So I think the 1940's champions Lesnevich and Mills were no better than the #8 and #9 light-heavyweights of their own decade,
behind Charles, Moore, Conn, Bivins, Maxim, Harold Johnson, and Marshall.

 

Yet, in retrospect, we learned that Holmes had more than a bit left in the tank, becoming ranked again in the heady 1990's.

Joe Louis was toast in 1951.

 

"Layne wasn't much, a Chris Arreola of the 50's."

I just studied Arreola's record, and looking at the Ring yearly ratings printed at boxrec, the only guy he has defeated who was ever rated was Jamaal McCline, who was rated in 2001, 2002, and 2004, and whom Arreola defeated in 2009.

In contrast, Layne defeated two champions within a couple of fights of them fighting for the championship, as well as eight other fighters who appeared in the Ring's yearly top ten.

And frankly, watching them on film, Layne is much better, with a fine jab and a very quick, accurate right hand.

 

Where then is his relevance to the debate?

 

Layne was never in top shape, had bad defence and was slow afoot, in that sense he and Arreola are very similar.
The 50's was a pretty poor era for heavies hence old timers hanging around and decent, but not great pseudo light-heavies having an impact on the ratings. This translates into it wasn't that difficult to be rated at some point.

 

Lesnevich and Mills being champion isn't a reflection on the depth of the division ,as you say they were cheese champions ,going to lose their crowns whenever they faced a reasonably decent challenger.
Mills in particular was very fortunate to get a title shot ,especially after the drubbing Marshall gave him. Similarly Lesnevich did not merit a heavyweight title shot of his recent record.

 

Apart from Foreman and very briefly Holmes, who are these old timers.

Apart from Patterson who did exactly what at175lbs?

I don't know why you posted the underlined the other three ,they are undeniably great lightheavies, how great is a matter of opinion however.

 

You are the one who brought up Whitlock to trash him.