Only a casual boxing fan would rank Sanchez and Chavez over Marquez

blackbolt396 · Dec 23, 2012

mrjotatp4p said: ↑

Chavez is Sanchez are number 1 and 2 in my book. Not a casual fan either.
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Yes !!!!!!!!!!

Hatesrats · Dec 23, 2012

Addie said: ↑

I rate fighters according to the following criteria; resume, ability, accomplishments, and longevity.

Resume: Before I get into this, JCC catches flack for fighting "part-time construction workers" but it's often forgotten that the man was fighting 5-6 times a year. It was his way of keeping in shape. Honestly, I'd prefer it if all fighters greeted us with their presence 5-6 times a year as a world champion, instead of the 2-3 times we've become accustomed to. Besides, JCC never ducked anyone.

JCC holds notable wins over Ruben Castillo, Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor (2), Hector Camacho, Terrence Ali, and Greg Haugen. He's actually fought and beat more world champions than just this, but that is a solid list of fighters. I'd go as far to say that all of them easily have the capacity to have been world champion today.

JMM holds notable wins over Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Diaz, Michael Katsidis, Derrick Gainer, Manuel Medina, Joel Casamayor, Orlando Salido, Rocky Jaurez, and Robbie Peden. A very good resume by contemporary standards with the two top names being particular standouts on paper.

It's fair to say that JMM's signature wins might be better than JCC's on paper, but Chavez certainly has the beating of Marquez in terms of depth. Likewise, a quick point, I personally believe both Meldrick Taylor and Edwin Rosario, on the nights they were both defeated, were every bit as good, if not better, than Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera on the nights they were defeated. Once you take that into consideration then there really is no great disparity between the two's list of wins.

Ability: This can't really be backed up with solid facts or stats, but it's my belief that JCC was a fair superior fighter to not just JMM, but any Mexican that came before or after him. He went to the body better, and he was a more consistent and varied combination puncher to JMM. Nearly everything the man threw, if it wasn't a right hand lead, was in combination. This broke opponent's down. Now, JMM is a wonderful composite puncher in his own right, and he has a very good jab, but when we break it all down in terms of defensive ability, cutting off the ring, fighting on the inside, offensive arsenals, punch resistance, etc. JCC comes out on top the vast majority of the time. Don't just take my word for it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMYpid7jdI&

Accomplishments: JMM is a 4 weight world champion, JCC a 3 weight world champion, but who defeated the most former world champs? JCC. Who amounted the most title defenses? JCC. Who went on the longest unbeaten streak? JCC. JMM has half the amount of fights that JCC managed to accumulate during his time as a fighter. In terms of accomplishments and setting and breaking records in this sport, JCC has the beating of a lot of fighters, not just JMM. People can sigh at the levels of some of the fighters he was beating, but it's not easy to fight 5-6 times a year and remain consistent. JCC was consistent.

Longevity: In fairness to JMM, he has really soared in terms of longevity. He's still at the top of the game even now and the man has been in the sport for a very long time. That being said, it stands to reason that JCC would lose out to Marquez in this respect considering he fought a whole lot more often. He fought 5-6 times a year pretty much throughout his entire career as world champion, so it's actually a testament to the man's abilities that he didn't burn out sooner than he did.

All in all, JCC was clearly the greater fighter in my estimation. His resume is deeper, he accomplished a lot more as a fighter than JMM has in my opinion, but more importantly than everything else he just looks better on film. We have plenty of footage of both men. I honestly don't expect too many educated fight fans to study both fighters and then conclude JMM did more things better in the ring than JCC. I just don't see that happening. JMM is great. JCC was one of the most complete fighters the sport has seen.
Click to expand...

Addie sums up fighters just about a good as anyone I have ever had the pleasure to read.

TS, There you go. :good
(Good job Addie)

anj · Dec 23, 2012

Addie said: ↑

I rate fighters according to the following criteria; resume, ability, accomplishments, and longevity.

Resume: Before I get into this, JCC catches flack for fighting "part-time construction workers" but it's often forgotten that the man was fighting 5-6 times a year. It was his way of keeping in shape. Honestly, I'd prefer it if all fighters greeted us with their presence 5-6 times a year as a world champion, instead of the 2-3 times we've become accustomed to. Besides, JCC never ducked anyone.

JCC holds notable wins over Ruben Castillo, Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor (2), Hector Camacho, Terrence Ali, and Greg Haugen. He's actually fought and beat more world champions than just this, but that is a solid list of fighters. I'd go as far to say that all of them easily have the capacity to have been world champion today.

JMM holds notable wins over Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Diaz, Michael Katsidis, Derrick Gainer, Manuel Medina, Joel Casamayor, Orlando Salido, Rocky Jaurez, and Robbie Peden. A very good resume by contemporary standards with the two top names being particular standouts on paper.

It's fair to say that JMM's signature wins might be better than JCC's on paper, but Chavez certainly has the beating of Marquez in terms of depth. Likewise, a quick point, I personally believe both Meldrick Taylor and Edwin Rosario, on the nights they were both defeated, were every bit as good, if not better, than Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera on the nights they were defeated. Once you take that into consideration then there really is no great disparity between the two's list of wins.

Ability: This can't really be backed up with solid facts or stats, but it's my belief that JCC was a fair superior fighter to not just JMM, but any Mexican that came before or after him. He went to the body better, and he was a more consistent and varied combination puncher to JMM. Nearly everything the man threw, if it wasn't a right hand lead, was in combination. This broke opponent's down. Now, JMM is a wonderful composite puncher in his own right, and he has a very good jab, but when we break it all down in terms of defensive ability, cutting off the ring, fighting on the inside, offensive arsenals, punch resistance, etc. JCC comes out on top the vast majority of the time. Don't just take my word for it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMYpid7jdI&

Accomplishments: JMM is a 4 weight world champion, JCC a 3 weight world champion, but who defeated the most former world champs? JCC. Who amounted the most title defenses? JCC. Who went on the longest unbeaten streak? JCC. JMM has half the amount of fights that JCC managed to accumulate during his time as a fighter. In terms of accomplishments and setting and breaking records in this sport, JCC has the beating of a lot of fighters, not just JMM. People can sigh at the levels of some of the fighters he was beating, but it's not easy to fight 5-6 times a year and remain consistent. JCC was consistent.

Longevity: In fairness to JMM, he has really soared in terms of longevity. He's still at the top of the game even now and the man has been in the sport for a very long time. That being said, it stands to reason that JCC would lose out to Marquez in this respect considering he fought a whole lot more often. He fought 5-6 times a year pretty much throughout his entire career as world champion, so it's actually a testament to the man's abilities that he didn't burn out sooner than he did.

All in all, JCC was clearly the greater fighter in my estimation. His resume is deeper, he accomplished a lot more as a fighter than JMM has in my opinion, but more importantly than everything else he just looks better on film. We have plenty of footage of both men. I honestly don't expect too many educated fight fans to study both fighters and then conclude JMM did more things better in the ring than JCC. I just don't see that happening. JMM is great. JCC was one of the most complete fighters the sport has seen.
Click to expand...

This was a remarkable read. Great post Addie.

salsanchezfan · Dec 23, 2012

Gotta love JMM, but to rank him up there with the true upper echelon greats from Mexico like Chavez, Sanchez, or Zarate to name a few (no one mentioned Zarate, what the hell?) is just doing the typical flavor-of-the-month thing with whatever fighter has a big win wthin the previous few weeks. Addie pretty much cleaned up this stupidity.

Sister Sledge · Dec 23, 2012

Marquez is up there, but his resume can't touch Chavez'. His resume does go rate pretty well against Sanchez, whom I think is a bit overrated, but still great.

Zopilote · Dec 23, 2012

Chavez
Olivares
Sanchez
Saldivar
Canto
Marquez

If anyone here is acting like a dumb casual fan, its the stupid TS.

Zopilote · Dec 23, 2012

Addie said: ↑

I rate fighters according to the following criteria; resume, ability, accomplishments, and longevity.

Resume: Before I get into this, JCC catches flack for fighting "part-time construction workers" but it's often forgotten that the man was fighting 5-6 times a year. It was his way of keeping in shape. Honestly, I'd prefer it if all fighters greeted us with their presence 5-6 times a year as a world champion, instead of the 2-3 times we've become accustomed to. Besides, JCC never ducked anyone.

JCC holds notable wins over Ruben Castillo, Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor (2), Hector Camacho, Terrence Ali, and Greg Haugen. He's actually fought and beat more world champions than just this, but that is a solid list of fighters. I'd go as far to say that all of them easily have the capacity to have been world champion today.

JMM holds notable wins over Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Diaz, Michael Katsidis, Derrick Gainer, Manuel Medina, Joel Casamayor, Orlando Salido, Rocky Jaurez, and Robbie Peden. A very good resume by contemporary standards with the two top names being particular standouts on paper.

It's fair to say that JMM's signature wins might be better than JCC's on paper, but Chavez certainly has the beating of Marquez in terms of depth. Likewise, a quick point, I personally believe both Meldrick Taylor and Edwin Rosario, on the nights they were both defeated, were every bit as good, if not better, than Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera on the nights they were defeated. Once you take that into consideration then there really is no great disparity between the two's list of wins.

Ability: This can't really be backed up with solid facts or stats, but it's my belief that JCC was a fair superior fighter to not just JMM, but any Mexican that came before or after him. He went to the body better, and he was a more consistent and varied combination puncher to JMM. Nearly everything the man threw, if it wasn't a right hand lead, was in combination. This broke opponent's down. Now, JMM is a wonderful composite puncher in his own right, and he has a very good jab, but when we break it all down in terms of defensive ability, cutting off the ring, fighting on the inside, offensive arsenals, punch resistance, etc. JCC comes out on top the vast majority of the time. Don't just take my word for it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMYpid7jdI&

Accomplishments: JMM is a 4 weight world champion, JCC a 3 weight world champion, but who defeated the most former world champs? JCC. Who amounted the most title defenses? JCC. Who went on the longest unbeaten streak? JCC. JMM has half the amount of fights that JCC managed to accumulate during his time as a fighter. In terms of accomplishments and setting and breaking records in this sport, JCC has the beating of a lot of fighters, not just JMM. People can sigh at the levels of some of the fighters he was beating, but it's not easy to fight 5-6 times a year and remain consistent. JCC was consistent.

Longevity: In fairness to JMM, he has really soared in terms of longevity. He's still at the top of the game even now and the man has been in the sport for a very long time. That being said, it stands to reason that JCC would lose out to Marquez in this respect considering he fought a whole lot more often. He fought 5-6 times a year pretty much throughout his entire career as world champion, so it's actually a testament to the man's abilities that he didn't burn out sooner than he did.

All in all, JCC was clearly the greater fighter in my estimation. His resume is deeper, he accomplished a lot more as a fighter than JMM has in my opinion, but more importantly than everything else he just looks better on film. We have plenty of footage of both men. I honestly don't expect too many educated fight fans to study both fighters and then conclude JMM did more things better in the ring than JCC. I just don't see that happening. JMM is great. JCC was one of the most complete fighters the sport has seen.
Click to expand...

Excellent post and video, Addie. :good

Garrus · Dec 23, 2012

Zopilote said: ↑

Chavez
Olivares
Sanchez
Saldivar
Canto
Marquez
Click to expand...

deal:deal

IvyLeagueBoxing · Dec 23, 2012

I can't believe some of you would rank guys like Canto and Salidivar over Marquez. smh but to each is own i guess..

I really appreciate Addie's well thought out breakdown though. It's respectable..

Just to clear things up though, I want to make it clear that this is no " post fight high " or flavor of the month reaction that you guys are getting from me...

Ive been a hardcore Boxing guy since the 80s and have been a life-long fan of Marquez... Ive been into Boxing for too long to feel any kind of " post fight highs "..... it sure aint that and im all about being objective..

Ive been telling the guys at the Ivyleague for the past 4 years or so that based on skill set, Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter ever so it's not just this PAcman victory that changes my mind... This victory only validates my the claim that ive been making for the past 4 years..

Canto, Saldivar, and Olivares over Marquez??? lol wow now that's just hatin...

1. Marquez

2. Chavez

3. Morales

ThaWiseJester · Dec 23, 2012

Well Juan IMO is a top 3 all time Mexican fighter,maybe even 2 now.. This will be looked at 20-50 years from now when Pac got KO'd by the Legend of Marquez...

RealBoxing · Dec 23, 2012

HeGlassedMe said: ↑

Pinoys have elevated JMM to God-like status.
Click to expand...

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Not saying much.

alakran · Dec 23, 2012

Addie said: ↑

I rate fighters according to the following criteria; resume, ability, accomplishments, and longevity.

Resume: Before I get into this, JCC catches flack for fighting "part-time construction workers" but it's often forgotten that the man was fighting 5-6 times a year. It was his way of keeping in shape. Honestly, I'd prefer it if all fighters greeted us with their presence 5-6 times a year as a world champion, instead of the 2-3 times we've become accustomed to. Besides, JCC never ducked anyone.

JCC holds notable wins over Ruben Castillo, Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor (2), Hector Camacho, Terrence Ali, and Greg Haugen. He's actually fought and beat more world champions than just this, but that is a solid list of fighters. I'd go as far to say that all of them easily have the capacity to have been world champion today.

JMM holds notable wins over Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Diaz, Michael Katsidis, Derrick Gainer, Manuel Medina, Joel Casamayor, Orlando Salido, Rocky Jaurez, and Robbie Peden. A very good resume by contemporary standards with the two top names being particular standouts on paper.

It's fair to say that JMM's signature wins might be better than JCC's on paper, but Chavez certainly has the beating of Marquez in terms of depth. Likewise, a quick point, I personally believe both Meldrick Taylor and Edwin Rosario, on the nights they were both defeated, were every bit as good, if not better, than Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera on the nights they were defeated. Once you take that into consideration then there really is no great disparity between the two's list of wins.

Ability: This can't really be backed up with solid facts or stats, but it's my belief that JCC was a fair superior fighter to not just JMM, but any Mexican that came before or after him. He went to the body better, and he was a more consistent and varied combination puncher to JMM. Nearly everything the man threw, if it wasn't a right hand lead, was in combination. This broke opponent's down. Now, JMM is a wonderful composite puncher in his own right, and he has a very good jab, but when we break it all down in terms of defensive ability, cutting off the ring, fighting on the inside, offensive arsenals, punch resistance, etc. JCC comes out on top the vast majority of the time. Don't just take my word for it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMYpid7jdI&

Accomplishments: JMM is a 4 weight world champion, JCC a 3 weight world champion, but who defeated the most former world champs? JCC. Who amounted the most title defenses? JCC. Who went on the longest unbeaten streak? JCC. JMM has half the amount of fights that JCC managed to accumulate during his time as a fighter. In terms of accomplishments and setting and breaking records in this sport, JCC has the beating of a lot of fighters, not just JMM. People can sigh at the levels of some of the fighters he was beating, but it's not easy to fight 5-6 times a year and remain consistent. JCC was consistent.

Longevity: In fairness to JMM, he has really soared in terms of longevity. He's still at the top of the game even now and the man has been in the sport for a very long time. That being said, it stands to reason that JCC would lose out to Marquez in this respect considering he fought a whole lot more often. He fought 5-6 times a year pretty much throughout his entire career as world champion, so it's actually a testament to the man's abilities that he didn't burn out sooner than he did.

All in all, JCC was clearly the greater fighter in my estimation. His resume is deeper, he accomplished a lot more as a fighter than JMM has in my opinion, but more importantly than everything else he just looks better on film. We have plenty of footage of both men. I honestly don't expect too many educated fight fans to study both fighters and then conclude JMM did more things better in the ring than JCC. I just don't see that happening. JMM is great. JCC was one of the most complete fighters the sport has seen.
Click to expand...

bigdog2001 · Dec 23, 2012

1 Chavez
2 Sanchez
3 lopez(finito)
4 Barrera/ morales
5 marquez

lora · Dec 23, 2012

IvyLeagueBoxing said: ↑

I can't believe some of you would rank guys like Canto and Salidivar over Marquez. smh but to each is own i guess..

I really appreciate Addie's well thought out breakdown though. It's respectable..

Just to clear things up though, I want to make it clear that this is no " post fight high " or flavor of the month reaction that you guys are getting from me...

Ive been a hardcore Boxing guy since the 80s and have been a life-long fan of Marquez... Ive been into Boxing for too long to feel any kind of " post fight highs "..... it sure aint that and im all about being objective..

Ive been telling the guys at the Ivyleague for the past 4 years or so that based on skill set, Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter ever so it's not just this PAcman victory that changes my mind... This victory only validates my the claim that ive been making for the past 4 years..

Canto, Saldivar, and Olivares over Marquez??? lol wow now that's just hatin...

1. Marquez

2. Chavez

3. Morales
Click to expand...

Who gives a ****.You think this makes you a genuine Geezer?

there are men on this forum who carried the spitbucket for John sullivan.

lufcrazy · Dec 23, 2012

Great post by Addie.

Ironically that's the very reasoning for why I rank JMM higher. Then again I scored John, Norwood, Pac trilogy all in his favour.

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