Opinions..Could Harry Greb have actually beaten Jack Dempsey?

Bu...bu... but Dempsey was only kidding! Y' see he LIKED being made a fool out of in sparring. He was famous for taking it real easy on his sparring partners and buying them ice cream and cotton candy afterwards. Dempsey was actually a super-relaxed fellow that allowed his sparring partners to tee off on him ...

/s obviously.

 

Jack Dempsey and Sparring:

"But Jack Dempsey was the only champion who practiced the same way the early Christians did -- as if his opponent had a mane and claws and would not only fight him but eat him. Dempsey even fought a punching bag as if it might open fire at any time. Sparring partners

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on every bus. A newspaper man climbed into the ring with him once as a gag, and a colleague had to write the fellow's story for a few days afterwards

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"Dempsey fought you," a battered spar-mate once confided, "as if the two of you were on a ledge 20 stories up and it was either him or you."
[...]
One night, when

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, Marty mildly suggested to Dempsey that he take off a day to heal. "Oh," soother Dempsey, "I'll take it easy with you, Turk -- just a few body taps." The first part of his body Dempsey tapped was his nose -- with one of the hardest rights he ever threw.

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when he got into the ring. You had to be alert out there or you'd find yourself looking around for your head."

One time, Marty sparred six rounds in one week with Dempsey, and then fought 15 with Gene Tunney for the American light-heavyweight championship.

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https://www.espn.com/classic/s/Murray_Dempsey_0808.html

 

That's it? (LOL)

That's the account of Harry Greb "beating" Dempsey? Three-rounds of sparring in the middle of an eight-round session against three guys?

Here's Dempsey losing a sparring session to Big Bill Tate.

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In my best 1920s radio announcer voiceover: "Dempsey could do little with the speedy Tate. Time and time again Tate made the Manassa Mauler miss with his famous right hand and left hooks to the head while Tate countered with stiff jabs before tying a frustrated Dempsey up. The poor sap Dempsey never laid a glove on the dancing giant. Wllard's going to mop the floor with this slacker."

Dempsey KO1 Greb.

 

So Greb got the better of a 3 round sparring session?

Pretty big difference between that and a real fight over the championship distance with the heavyweight title on the line.

I’d back Dempsey to be made to miss and look bad early before targeting Grebs body and slowing the smaller man down until the size, pressure and power of Dempsey brings the bout to its conclusion.

Greb might have been amazing but he was human at the end of the day too. I don’t see a short, feather fisted pressure fighter surviving 15 rounds with a peak Dempsey.

 

Right on the gloves, wrong on Gibbons tactics ,at least in the early rounds,
I bought some old Ring magazines on E Bay the other week here is an excerpt from an article about Gibbons.
" I was sure I could take the play away from Jack by assuming the aggressive as soon as the fight got under way and keep him so busy defending himself that he couldn't do much punching.In other words I figured a good offense would be the best defense against Jack.
I planned to get him on his heels and keep him there,thus nullifying the power of his punches.It made sense,Jack couldn't hit as hard backing up as going forward.
I also figured jack would be rusty from inactivity,inasmuchas he had not engaged in a title fight since he knocked out Georges Carpentier in 4 rounds in1921, 2 years before he fought me.
That's where I made a disastrous mistake,for I played right into Dempsey's hands by bringing the fight to him as soon as the gong started us on our way in the first round.
That was right up Jack's alley because he thrived on slugging toe to toe with opponents.
During a wild exchange of punches,early in the first round ,he nailed me with a terrific right hand blow between the eyes.he aimed for my chin.I tried to duck under the blow ,but didn't time it properly.Fortunately the blow didn't find its intended target or the fight might have ended then and there.despite the fact the punch landed on my forehead,I felt it clear down to my ankles.
The blow blurred my vision and I saw three Dempsey's in front of me ,so I grabbed the one in the middle and clinched until the fog lifted from my brain.
How I lasted out that first round ,and the next three was a mystery to me for days afterward!
That punch caused double vision .I could scarcely see Jack much less gauge the blows he fired at me from every angle with machine gun rapidity.
My brain finally cleared and my vision improved ,when the sixth round was reached,but I never fully recovered from the effects of the pummelling I endured during the first 5 rds.Jack's telling blows to head and body reaped their toll .
Nevertheless,I figured I fought Jack on even terms from the 6th round through the 12th rd,but he out- finished me on the last 3 rds and won the decision..
I always felt it might have been a different story had I boxed on the defensive in the early rounds,letting Jack bring the milling to me and picking him off with counter punches.
This was the plan Gene Tunney used so effectively against Dempsey in winning the title 3 years later ,in1926 and defensing it in1927." Tommy Gibbons

NB Greb carried 169/170lbs comfortably in winning fights against the likes of Rojas.

 

Man, all I can say is that people are being either wilfully stupid or simply are starry-eyed kiddies that DKSAB.

Fact: Dempsey went all-out on his sparring partners
Fact: Greb sparred him.
Fact: Greb whooped him big time, standing toe-to-toe
Fact: Greb was run out of camp after that and this despite Jack's difficulties in finding decent sparring
Fact: Dempsey himself admitted that after their sparring session that it had felt as though he'd been "in a glove factory"
Fact: Greb beat many of the same top-rated guys that Dempsey did - at HW.
Fact: Greb beat a guy that beat Dempsey
Fact: Greb chased Dempsey for years, yet Dempsey somehow never got around to fighting him. In 1922 Greb signed to fight Dempsey and Dempsey signed to fight Gibbons, the guy Greb had just beaten.

People saying Dempsey KO1 simply are trolling or deluded.

There would be nothing easy for Dempsey if he fought Greb.

 

That happens to be my opinion as well. I could be wrong.

 

We both could be.

Greb clearly was a freak fighter so who knows?

 

No doubt Greb is durable. I'm just not sure about any MW or LHW being FAR more durable than The Jinx. Maybe P4P if you must but in real terms I can't see it. Take away his last fight against Tyson in his absolute prime and Spinks actually never hit the canvas. He was plenty durable

 

In a 15 round fight I think you have to think despite Greb's elusiveness that at some point Dempsey will tag him.
Greb may well be a nightmare for Jack, he was for most but if we're talking the absolute prime Dempsey I have to go with him, although he'll certainly not look good doing it, and it may well be a come from behind stoppage.
It would be an intriguing match up though, only wish it had happened.

 

'Even Doc Kearns, who was managing Jack Dempsey, refused to let his tiger in the ring with Greb. They did spar on two occasions. The first time was when Dempsey was getting ready for his title defense against Billy Miske in Benton Harbor, Michigan. Greb ripped into dempsey, punching the heaveyweight champion as he pleased, until Kearns finally threw him out of the ring for being too rough."

 

Just silly stuff. Sparring entails large padded gloves that mute punching power. Ever see horse hair filled 5 oz gloves? Ever see training gloves from Dempsey’s era? I have and it’s a huge difference. The 5 oz gloves of that period were like bricks and Dempsey was perhaps the most destructive puncher in HEAVYWEIGHT history. There is no chance Greb survives and even money his next trip post fight is to a hospital. Think Foreman vs Monzon. Tyson vs Hagler. Louis vs SRR. All three middleweights were great but they crash under the first solid blow. Same with Dempsey vs Greb.

 

And yet Dempsey never fought Greb, despite Greb signing for the actual fight.

There was one guy who thought he would win.

There was another guy who thought he might not.

That's history.

 

I think it was just a no win scenario for Dempsey.
If he was beat, then he got beat by a blown up middleweight.
If he won, then so what, he just beat a blown up middleweight.
Plus win or lose he would probably look bad.

 

That's a fair post.

There's a Dempsey quote that I was looking for and I'm damned if I could find it. It was along the lines of that he could roll out of bed and beat a guy like Brennan, but he'd have to be absolutely tip top shape to beat Greb and he didn't feel like going through the effort.