Opinons on Julio Cesar Chavez?

Chavez was a great fighter. Heavy-handed, very fluid and accurate combination puncher, good at cutting off the ring rather than simply following an opponent. His chin was excellent (abormally sized cranium) but he also slipped and rolled with shots effectively as well. People often make too much of it when a fighter has a fancy looking defense or dances and moves a lot, but one of the things about having a good defense is not sacrificing too much offense for it. Chavez was effective at not sacrificing too much of his offense to avoid shots. He'd come forward and hit his oponnent, slip the counter shots, and then attack some more.

 

How would Taylor's career have been that much different if he didn't fight Chavez?

Taylor still had weight problems at 140 with his stocky frame (he cited this for the reason to move up), too much of a tendency to trade, and the talent pool at 147 was deep around this time, with big strong guys who could hit. He only went back to 140 years later because he was pretty desperate for a big fight, he wasn't gonna get any elsewhere other than a rematch with JCC.

Let's say Chavez never existed. Taylor still goes to WW, wins a title against Davis. Espana is still a very difficult stylistic matchup for Taylor. Trinidad is on the rise, and so is Quartey. Heavy-handed, rangier, bigger-framed guys (especially Trinidad). Then you've also got stablemate Whitaker about to go up there to 147. They may have been friends, but money talks, and so does ego.

It's not that Taylor wasn't a terrific fighter at his best, but he'd be surrounded by others at the weight class with whom stylistically he doesn't match up well with. He'd most likely have to have been protected to stay on top as champ. And given the fact that his team put him in there with Chavez after 23 or so fights, and then to fight Norris @ 150, I'd say they were far from a "protective" team.

As often as it's said, I really don't see this "future ATG that was ruined" in Taylor, given the circumstances and guys that were around his division at that time.

 

But I'd say most genuine greats in and around that weight would've probably disposed of those two in a similar manner. Rosario's game was somewhat weak outside of his power (as his fights with Ramirez and Davis had already exposed) and Camacho was considered past his peak by that time, and would be outclassed in similar fashion against other elite fighters he faced in his career.

 

His defense looked very good in some fights, such as against Martinez and Rosario. However, other fights showed that a fighter bold enough to step into him could find a way to land solidly and consistently on him - ie: Castillo, Mayweather, Taylor, Whitaker, Randall. I'd say his defense was good, but somewhat vulnerable at the same time.

 

I don't like him, but I consider him to be the best mexican fighter of all-times.

 

Chavez when he was coming up was not thought of as any good. He was brought in to Los Angeles to lose to then highly heralded Azabache Martinez. It was not until this fight that he was thought of as a good fighter by the world. One thing I will say is that he destroyed Roger Mayweather twice, Melderick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Haughen, Terrance Ali and David Kamau. If you ever watch him fight you see him outwork fighters destroying them with excelelnt body head combos. I think its funny that most people who try to say he was hype are young and have no knowledge of boxing in the 80's and early 90's

 

:bbb

 

I like him, a lot, but his record hurts him enough to the point where I wouldn't put him in anything particularly high p4p- i really think people putting him in top ten and such is ridiculous, to be honest.

H2H he brings the ruckus though, especially LW.

 

The best fighter Mexico has ever produced, but an intemperate child whom I cannot respect as a man.

And frankly (at least to me) that means more, so **** him.

 

Where would you have him on your all time list? Who do you rate above him in the last 40 Years? Id only put Duran,Ali,Leonard and maybe Whittaker.

 

honestly? somewhere near the 30's-40's. I wrote my list down on paper somewhere and I can't find the damned thing.

EDIT: Sorry, you said last 40 years. In that case, quite a few. Duran, Ali, Leonard, Tyson, Holmes, Jones Jr, Oscar De La Hoya, Pacquiao, Arguello, Hopkins, Whitaker off the top of my head.

 

Im a huge fan of Tyson but i cant see you making a case for him.

DUran top 5
Leonard around 7
Ali around 5
Whittaker top 10:think
Pac top 15 will go higher if he beats May
Jones top 20
ODLH top 30
Arguello top 30-35
Holmes top 30
Hopkins top 30
Tyson maybe top 50.

Id put Chavez around 10 no lower than 15.