Orlando Canizales v Veeraphol Sahaprom

Deathmask

Based off a cooler nickname.

 

Bump

 

Both had long reigns, consisting of the most modest opposition, afforded them by their respective governing bodies, at the time.

However, Canizales was, in my opinion, of a higher class than Sahaprom - and, head-to-head, I'd go with Canizales to win, by mid-round KO.

 

Do not take the bait, guys.

 

Canizalea was an offensive fighter.

He wasnt even particularly good defensively.

 

Yeah, Deathmask was the bigger hitter between the two. Canizales had pop though, but no, he certainly wasn't Wilfredo Gomez in the power department.

I definitely see this fight going the distance.

 

Canizales was in a different class and carried enough power, speed and precision, along with a wide and varied armory to stop Sahaprom.

(ps - I think your KO/stoppage stats for Canizales are incorrect).

 

What makes you think Canizales is in a different class?

 

It's mainly a judgement based on what I've watched. But, in addition to that, I'd say Canizales has the better boxing pedigree (Sahaprom's Muay Thia superstardom notwithstanding). One could also argue an overall better level of opposition, albeit debatable (But, I think Canizales win over Seabrooks, at the point at which he first fought him, is better than anything Sahaprom did).

These are just my opinions but, when I watch both of them fight, I quite easily imagine Canizales caning Sahaprom from the opening bell - consistently beating Sahaprom to punch. I see a notable difference in quality between, say, the Sahaprom/Nishioka bouts and the Canizales/Seabrooks bouts. Canizales' all-round skill is palpably apparent, whereas I find Sahaprom quite raw and somewhat basic.

Canizales' wider array of punches; punch selection; counter-punching and accuracy are all visibly verifiable, as is his superior footwork and control of distance. Sahaprom may have the edge in power and he carries a stinging left-hook, as well as a solid straight right, but I don't think this is enough to break or even deter Canizales.

It's enough for me to consider them as quite separate in terms of class and, in all honesty, I really don't think Sahaprom would have known what had hit him, had he faced someone of Canizales caliber.

 

I don't really think it's arguable at all that Sahaprom accomplished more at bantamweight than Canizales. They both had title reigns lasting awhile, but Canizales was against quite poor opposition, whereas Veeraphol had some quite respectable opponents in front of him. Veeraphol's reign also lasted longer, and he won the title in his fourth pro fight.

I don't see why Seabrooks - specifically at that time - was better than all of Sahaprom's wins. Seabrooks would win two fights in the remainder of his career after that first fight, and before the fight was getting the **** kicked out of him by an incredibly green Thierry Jacob and again vs Ernie Cataluna (who, with all respect to him, wasn't even the man in his own house). Not to mention that he'd been beaten, what? 13 times or so by then? Seabrooks certainly wasn't an elite fighter by any means. A loveable, highly entertaining, almost Saad Muhammad-esque brawler for sure, but not an elite fighter.

No, I'd actually take Tatsuyoshi over his and Sahaprom's first fight quite handedly over Seabrooks. Tatsuyoshi coming off wins over Ayala and Singwancha. And I wouldn't rate Tatsuyoshi as Deathmask's best win, either. Nishioka or Chuwatana would take that, IMO. Chuwatana would beat Nana Konadu, and thrash a John Michael Johnson coming off beating Junior Jones. Nish was lucky to get two draws with Sahaprom as well IMO. Always thought Veeraphol deserved at one of those, although I guess you can say the same for Nishioka.

Who's Canizales second best win again?

The thing is, that the only times where Canizales had a high calibre guy in front of him, he didn't cane them from the opening bell. In fact, the only two fighters who I'd call genuinely elite (or at least, above or around he level of Chuwatana), he didn't even beat. Also, I don't think it's a given that Canizales whitewashes Nish. Nish's fleet feet and reluctance to set would give Canizales no opportunities. As shown vs multiple out-boxers, notable Jones, Canizales didn't really have the ring-cutting ability to hunt those guys down. Sure, he could out-work Nish, but he damn sure wouldn't look good while doing it. Definitely not as Sahaprom did in their final fight.

You find Sahaprom basic? I certainly don't. His upper-body movement and feinting lead are brilliant IMO, and his footwork certainly had more substance about it than Canizales'. He wasn't put off by someone coming straight at him, and he was really good at getting into a groove and hunting down those who didn't wanna trade with him. He was actually a bit like Kostya Tzysu in that second regard.

And when it comes to talent, there's no clear gap between them. Both were sublimely skilled. Canizales was probably a bit smoother, quicker of hand and it would seem a bit tougher, but Sahaprom clearly hit harder, was definitely stronger physically, had great stamina, timing and balance and was just as accurate and fluid when letting shots go. He was certainly a nastier fighter when he had a guy hurt.

I don't see what this wider array of punches is. Orlando didn't have a better jab, nor cross. Sahaprom's hooks was, IMO, better and his uppercuts definitely were. Unless you're talking about some falcon punch Orlando read in a comic, I don't see what punches he throws better.

Both are extremely accurate. There's no massive gap there no matter who you side with. Sahaprom was always known as a sharpshooter. And his footwork might not have been as pretty, but it was certainly more effective - against a wider range of styles against better competition - when he needed it. As for controlling distance, Canziales never did it better than Sahaprom did in the first fight with Tatsuyoshi, IMO. Finally, if Billy Hardy's feather dusters are good enough to deter Canizales, I'm sure Sahaprom's are as well.

You'd have to say the same of Canizales.

 

Canizales, yes, I would say was a bit better than Sahaprom... but different level? No.

Olivares, Jofre, Zarate, Rose, Harada, Castillo, Herrera, THAT'S a different level than Sahaprom.

Canizales and Sahaprom were roughly on the same tier, but yes, I would say Orlando was a little bit better.

 

I'd say the same but the other way around. Sahaprom a bit better, but certainly on the same level. The thing with ranking Canizales is that his opposition was so poor, and he could he inconsistent, that it's hard to get a good grasp of him. If he'd have fought better guys, we'd know how he deals with the best of the best. But we don't. We know how he deals with them at SBW, but not BW.

 

On thing I'll say that's pro-Sahaprom, it's hard to imagine Deathmask going life and death with a Billy Hardy level fighter.

But to Canizales' credit, he did show in the rematch the huge gap between them.