Orlando Canizales?

Be very nice to see more fighters like him now. It's very difficult to rank him, all you have to do to recognise how good he was is watch him at his best. Seabrooks, Hardy etc. He arguably never lost at his ultimate peak. And he avenged his only early loss. But if you want to avoid arguments coming your way in your rankings, then you have got to give way to the McGoverns and Browns, Haradas. It may come as a shock that i'm mentioning him on their level but that's how good he looked to me. You can make the comparisons with Zarate when you think about it, for career. Zarate higher for me though, one of the best that man.

You got him top ten Addie?

 

Sadly we never got to see him fight Perez or Jones (at 118). Wins against that kind of opposition, may of made him a legitimate all time top 10 Bantam...

 

I'll try and find my post on it from a while back. I'd go with Zarate but it's highly debatable. Pintor enjoyed success against Zarate by being compact close and landing short combos, his defence didn't look terrible at times either. By the same token you had Zarate arguably winning, but Canizales could do the scoring better than Zarate imo, making room for the angles. It could go either way so i have no reservations on it. Zarate culd pound ridiculously hard though, he'd throw a shot and a guy's head would jerk back, you didn't realise how thudding it was until after it landed. Zarate's ko ratio was 95%. I like him a lot and on that basis i'll pick him to fight it out in a classic and take it.

 

Orlando Canizales matured like a great redwine. He became better and better. I have a lot of his fights, and he is great to watch.

Woller

 

The main drawbacks on Canizales overall, imo would be that he didn't unify and fought a lot of average challengers( though nowhere near as bad as some of the other notable longer reigning lighter weight fighters that iddn't get a defining win), plus some of the better ones like Bones adams gave him tough fights.He didn't get that big marquee win in his prime that guys like Zarate and Olivares have.BY the time he fought the likes of Jones and Vazquez he was past his best especially athletically.

He was maybe a bit too polite overall.Compare him to the peak Duran, who he shared a lot of technical similarities with and i'm sure you'll see what i mean.With more of a viscious attitude he would have been awfully tough to beat.


Technically there isn't much to find fault with.One of the great balanced boxer-punchers.

 

I believe he only defended his titles against a single top ranked opponent. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

One of my favorites. He made great use of angles and footwork. He'd make a step to the right and turn his body off a feint to put his opponent off balance and attack with a variety of counters. He was a blistering, but very calculated combination puncher. When on the offensive, he'd vary his attack up from head to body seamlessly, throwing some of the most concise hooks and uppercuts you'll ever see. He also had excellent instinctive reflexes when on the attack, kind of like a Jung-Koo Chang. Not a great defensive fighter, but when he was on he was able to slip and roll punches beautifully, putting him in perfect positions to counter off his opponent's mistakes.

That's another thing about him, he was one of the most offensively aware fighters I've seen at the lower weights. You mentioned his punch placement, which is indeed one of his best traits. Whatever the opponent presented to hit, Orlando hit it. Extremely accurate and smooth when he got his opponent hurt. Just a wonderfully well-schooled fighter.

His only flaw really was a tendancy to coast at certain points during fights he was controlling. When he lands his hands go he was the master, but when he didn't he'd allow opponents to work their way into a fight. I think this could cost him against some of the bigger punchers and/or the better out-boxers and slick stylists.

As to where he'd rank at Bantamweight, it depends on how you're ranking him. He missed out on some of the biggest fights that could've been made, but never faltered against the opposition he was facing. He blitzed Hardy in the rematch after the first fight where he was off form and run very close. I'd say based on ability he's definitely one of the best I've ever seen, but we can't know for sure how he'd have fared against the truly elite in the division because he never really faced that caliber of fighter. The small weaknesses that he did have could've been blown up a bit. Either way he looked as impressive as he could've against the competition he faced, though he had a short prime.

He'd probably be borderline top 10 for me, despite all the greats to have fought in the division. He impressed me that much as a fighter.

 

I would not think many people who know the history of the Bantams could find a place in their top 10 for Orlando; the division was very strong.

Going though the champs: Dixon, Plimmer, Palmer, McGovern, Moran, Walsh, LeDoux, Williams, Herman, Lynch, Brown, Escobar, Dado, Ortiz, Toweel, Carruthers, Dade, Halimi, Cohen, Becerra, Jofre, Harada, Rose, Olivares, Castillo, Martinez, Zamora, Zarate, Pintor, Chandler, Fenech, Lora, Perez, Austin, Ayala, Marquez and Gonzales are also fighting for a place, and then there are the contenders who did not quite cut it, in the era of the universal champ...

Orlando has a Titanic battle to crack that top 10.

 

As an aside i remember a few months ago in a discussion on the merits of him and Galaxy, someone going about his style of sliding over to the right for placing the left-hook as a gimmick.

****ing Galaxy fans

 

Okay i've just found my post from ages ago, it only touches on this fight a bit, but here it is. I've done my homework on these bantams a lot since i posted this so i could very well differ in opinion now, but here:

In my opinion Zarate would beat Canizales in a very close fight where we all feel we saw a great effort by the losing combatant. McGrain nailed it for me, Canizales more organised, Zarate more nasty.

I would also pick Zarate over Rose, Rose could possibly look better for a while against Zarate than he did against Olivares, in fact i'm sure he would, but Zarate is always coming for him in my opinion, when the man starts to stamp his trademark all over the fight he will earn his w on the record in my opinion.

Panama Al Brown is a man that might be able to get a decision, by not co-operating in any war, and countering. But i must say i think Zarate can earn points here also, his own accurate shots can find the mark and well power means something as well. No man ever kept shy of a bantamweight Carlos Zarate so i don't know. This is one where i sit on the fence, but fall off in Zarate's territory.

I think Zarate might outpoint Manuel Ortiz in a war of attrition, but i can't make much of an assumption based on the not extensive footage i have seen, but the same applies for Brown.

Harada, this is harder for me to say than others seem to have it. Harada was a dynamo, he could do the Gavin Rees title winning gameplan to perfection (haha, or lets say Manny Pacquiao), meaning the way he performed against Jofre and Rudkin. Simply lets his hands go and they are faster than fast. I can actually see him winning, but i can see both men winning. Jofre hurt Harada though and Zarate is accurate in his own right, plus more powerful, dare i say he could stop Harada? I might have to pick Harada on points here because i haven't picked a man against him yet. By the way, Masahiko Harada could box, his jab was not a non-existent tool in his arsenal, and he could move also, though for me his greatest way of winnig against the best is as i stated above.

I take Zarate to beat McGovern in a heavy ammunition trade-off.

Now for Jofre, i would pick Jofre because i think he is accurate as can be with his long-range power shots, he can bolo, he can do a sort of inverted or upside down bolo with devastating effect. More to the point, and in more simple terms, he is durable and does the scoring.

Zarate-Olivares is a toss up for me but i'm leaning towards Olivares, only because i think that due to the styles and techniques employed in the actual throwing of punches, Olivares can land plenty. But a toss-up in my opinion as the same maybe can be said vice versa, as Zarate would land on anyone.

 

In terms of fluidity of punching, offensive radar and allround ability, he ranks up there with the very best from straw to 122. As previously mentioned his comp wasn't fantastic (but when you think of the kudos Khaosai Galaxy gets it's unbelievable to think Canizales isn't more revered) but on this board he's rated in accordance. Allroub skillset at Bantam he's top five IMO, along with Rose, Jofre, Olivares and AHEM Khaokor Galaxy :rofl would've loved to see Canizales and Khaokor square off, who takes that prime for prime. Both adaptable guys with varied offensive games. I say Orland squeeks the decision.