Ortiz, Ruiz and Dillian Whyteleafe (and big josh)

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Wig, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Jurgen

    Jurgen Pay Per Pudding Advisor Full Member

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    Is there a waft of Tony Hayers in the air?
     
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  2. nurological

    nurological Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nah. Mitch actually seems like he watches fights.
     
  3. Jurgen

    Jurgen Pay Per Pudding Advisor Full Member

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    Good point mate but we need to check he is around on fight night - I have not noticed whether he is or not.
     
  4. carlingeight

    carlingeight Active Member Full Member

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    Main point for me is that Fury vs Joshua would be a great, high-quality fight. I don't like playing down either of their records, it would be a statement win for either of them. Will it be enough to put them alongside past greats - nope. But it's still the fight we should all want. There really isn't any other HW fight out there like it, which makes it a damn shame they both have banana skin opponents to get past.

    Joshua is a different puzzle for Fury to solve. Fury hasn't come up against anyone that size with those fast combinations. I think he'll do it though, and I hope he gets the credit if he does. Likewise if AJ manages to do it, and fingers crossed it's good enough to warrant a rematch (or two).
     
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  5. Furious

    Furious Well-Known Member Full Member

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    To be fair though I imagine lots of people prefer to just watch the fights without also posting on the forum. I sometimes look at Twitter during fights but wouldn’t be inclined to post on here during.
     
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  6. Safin

    Safin Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    That is subjective.

    Wladimir Klitschko is considered a great, and his reign is against a bunch of old, short and/or rubbish competitors. He also got sparked out three times by mediocre opposition, got schooled by Fury and lost to Joshua. Although the names on Vitali's record are not any better, he at least was never down in his career, never was down on the cards, lost about 8 rounds on the cards in his entire career, was much more entertaining and only suffered two losses due to injury. If you are going to face mediocre opposition, you can't be stopped by three of them, and down in other

    If Fury beats Joshua, then he absolutely does go down in my books as one of the greats. I'd take wins over W. Klitschko, Wilder and Joshua over W. Klitschko's reign over the likes of Brock, Thompson, Leapai, Pulev, Jennings, Rahman, Mormeck, Chambers et al. For me it is about quality and context, not quantity. Fury could literally beat Leapai, Mormeck and Brock on the same night.

    Joshua still hasn't faced Wilder, while Fury's about to face him for the third time. He has also lost to a mediocre opponent in Rice Pudding Jr.
     
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  7. carlingeight

    carlingeight Active Member Full Member

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    I was thinking further back than Wlad and Vitali - agree that Fury and Joshua could be considered alongside the Ukranians. Reckon Fury will surpass them as well.
     
  8. Safin

    Safin Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Fair enough.

    Mike Tyson is considered a great, and his best wins are arguably old and past it Holmes, Bruno x 2, Spinks, Tucker... These names are not overly impressive. He was also beaten black and blue by James Douglas. He was then battered by Holyfield. Schooled by Lewis and then knocked out by Williams and McBride. Overall, I think he is wildly overrated (I think he is very good), but most consider this good enough to be a first ballot great and I think it's more so due to his notoriety and style over achievements and objective effectiveness.

    If Joshua beats Fury and Wilder, even without beating Usyk, I'd say that his record is better than Mike Tyson's.
     
  9. Wig

    Wig Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thinking about big josh he still has a huge question mark against his mental toughness with the nature of his 1-1 with the little obese Mexican.

    When Lennox lost to Rahman, he stood centre ring in the rematch, jabbed his head in then put him to sleep. Hit him so hard it actually knocked him down twice, properly lights out punch. Utterly conclusive.

    When Lennox lost to McCall he beat him up so bad in the rematch he made him cry, total ruthless destruction of body mind and spirit.

    when big Josh got bounced around the ring and chose to QUIT against the little Mexican fatty in America; He took the immediate rematch for which he deserves some credit. However when the Mexican fella turned up as a morbidly obese, immobile, grinning blob and stood centre ring, almost unable to move, big josh opted to fight terrified on the outside for twelve rounds, barely throwing a punch and awkwardly skipping about to a points victory which raised far more questions than it answered.

    The above examples possibly demonstrate the difference in mindset, in genetic makeup, mental fortitude between an atg such as Lewis and a home comforts fighter like big josh.

    does big Josh need to beat the little fat Mexican fella conclusively before he thinks about mixing it with the top three? It’s certainly a valid question.
     
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  10. aaaaa

    aaaaa Ash banned Full Member

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    Valid point.

    Wonder how Joshua in the second fight would have got on against Ruiz from the first.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  11. Terminator

    Terminator Member Full Member

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    Ruiz is good up close but show him a jab and some movement and he struggles. Joshua (femi) would have done exactly the same thing even if Ruiz showed up with a 6 pack. Problem is big josh cant adapt on the fly like a Fury or Usyk as he has no fight IQ which is why he folded at MSG
     
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  12. Jurgen

    Jurgen Pay Per Pudding Advisor Full Member

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    Iron Mike was finished at the elite level when Cus D'Amato died.

    Once the snowball starting rolling down the top of the hill, it only stopped at the prison gates.

    Iron Mike's career ceiling when he left prison, after nearly 3 years, was much lower than it was before the old man died and he stood very little chance against any elite heavyweights such as Lewis and Holyfield. The losses to people such as Danny Williams and McBride simply shows that time stops for nobody.

    Anyone spending 3 years in prison will never get the body back to where it was and it would have been great to see the best version of Mike Tyson in with Lewis and Holyfield.

    Scott Harrison another who sadly went off the rails and ended up in prison leaving a sad version of the once great fighter being beaten by the likes of Liam Walsh.
     
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  13. nurological

    nurological Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cus D'Amato died around a year before Tyson won his first world title so he wouldn't necessarily have turned out any different. He was just a loose cannon, wild and uncivilised once the money and fame landed, he just couldn't handle it and as he isnt very smart the sharks began to circle.
     
  14. Jurgen

    Jurgen Pay Per Pudding Advisor Full Member

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    Why he needed the old man more than ever mate - as you say, once the sharks circled he never stood a chance.
     
  15. nurological

    nurological Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He may have helped but i just think Tyson woul always going down that route. Most people aren't built for fame.
     
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