Oscar De La Hoya TKO6 Ricardo Mayorga 2006 & Jhonny Gonzalez TKO9 Irene Pacheco 2007

errsta · Sep 28, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

If Oscar wasn't such a bad mother****er in the chin department, that would have been a massive behinds-on-the-cards KO win for Mayorga (imagine his storybook legacy if you add a win like that to the two over Forrest! :scaredas: That would be maybe the best career ever enjoyed by an undisciplined "freestyle slugger").

I don't remember what round it was, but there was an uppercut that nearly flattened Oscar but he just plants his rear foot and throws his arms up in a defensive crouch and somehow gets his wits back about him before Mayorga can finish him off.

It wasn't a pier six brawl, nor was it technical ecstasy - it was almost squarely middle-of-the-road. For those who like to see a little of everything, and some back-and-forth shifts in momentum, it's a pretty satisfying fight to watch.
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After reading the subject, I had no idea this would be such a quality thread. Thanks.

kirk · Sep 28, 2010

UliUli said: ↑

I saw him throw more combinations against Oscar than he did against Spinks....Sure Mayorga wasn't at his best, but neither was Oscar.
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I didnt say Oscar was, it has nothing to do with that. Im saying i dont like watching the fight cuz why would I? If Mayorga doesnt feel like Mayorga in there to me, why would i like the fight? I dont really care how oscar was or wasnt. Im not excusing anything, in fact, Mayorga looked good that first round until the knockdown, it was mainly the Hoya left hook that ****ed him up and had him out of his 'zone' imo for the rest of the fight, so all credit to Hoya. And Oscar wasnt at his best eather, and i dont know to me that comes through when im trying to enjoy the fight. Dont get me wrong oscar was good, but neather fighter was what they once were and i think i watch vintage fights so much of them in peak form that i lose interest in re-watching their faded versions unless its a standout good fight.

And the spinks fight is very simply because Oscar was a target right in front of Mayorga with his gloves up, of course you can throw more combos against someone like that then a defence first, running, falling to the floor fighter like spinks. That fact is pretty irrelevent. In my opinion, the Mayorga that fought Spinks was much better then the one that fought Oscar though, of that i have no doubt. However, that has nothing to do with what im talking about and is irrelevent to me as far as why i dont much care for the fight, i just dont like the 'feel' of Mayorga in the Oscar fight. Even his ring walk looked wrong.... solumn and not his usual self. And the way he lost, almost as if it was a submission, when Mayorga will always go out on his shield or look to get back up if he goes down (unless hes truly out ala mosley) nah.... too many things i dont like about that fight. Again, its not the loss, its the whole feel of him and that fight i dont like. The same for Mayorga vs Vargas, i wont watch that one because to me its just not them. They are just too far past their best (yes, Mayorga went on to give Mosley hell, he looked decent in that fight) but in the Mayorga/Vargas fight, both guys looked so far removed from what they were that i dont enjoy watching that fight eather. So im not saying its because my guy lost, ill watch Tito/Mayorga, Tito/Vargas, Hoya/Vargas, Spinks/Mayorga all day long.

Im not knocking anything about the fight in particular, hell i could see why most people, especially oscar fans, would love the fight. I just dont care for it all that much, probably due to oscar snuffing any shot Mayorga had out early with that left hook and taking him out of his zone for the rest of the fight, and the way Mayorga finally lost, isnt Mayorga style, Mayorga ALWAYS goes out on his shield, and he almost submits to hoya in the manner he did? He says its because he never recovered from the first knockdown and i believe him, its just not a fight that id watch for any particular reason, or feel good about as a big Mayorga fan

kirk · Sep 28, 2010

Seven Chance said: ↑

People never talk about it but Oscar does have an absolutely great chin look at all the guys he's been in there with and the only real KO loss he has came from a middleweight BODYpunch
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And its not like he just hasnt been hit, hes been hit flush by most of all the big punchers hes fought, he just has an honestly truly great chin.

eliqueiros · Sep 28, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

If Oscar wasn't such a bad mother****er in the chin department, that would have been a massive behinds-on-the-cards KO win for Mayorga (imagine his storybook legacy if you add a win like that to the two over Forrest! :scaredas: That would be maybe the best career ever enjoyed by an undisciplined "freestyle slugger").

I don't remember what round it was, but there was an uppercut that nearly flattened Oscar but he just plants his rear foot and throws his arms up in a defensive crouch and somehow gets his wits back about him before Mayorga can finish him off.

It wasn't a pier six brawl, nor was it technical ecstasy - it was almost squarely middle-of-the-road. For those who like to see a little of everything, and some back-and-forth shifts in momentum, it's a pretty satisfying fight to watch.
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He almost ko'd Mosley with that same punch in round 1, wasn't it? Maybe round 2. But those Mayorga uppercuts are serious business. Mosley staggered hard.

eliqueiros · Sep 28, 2010

kirk said: ↑

It was a good shot, but the best punch IMO would have been the left hook that put Mayorga down in the first round.
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Yep, best punch of the fight for sure. The best part was the SOUND. It sounds like a baseball bat hitting a ball, so damn loud.

bachatu · Sep 28, 2010

Oscar/Mayorga was a good fight. It was good because it started fast by the knockdown, certainly no one expected one to come so quick, it even surprised Mayorga. It kept the viewer entertained with the quick start yet it settled down in to a good fight and finished off with the icing on top.

Despite Mayorga NOT wanting to show respect to Oscar from the beginning, Oscar earned his respect in that opening minute when he cracked him flush on the chin with his patented left hook and dropped the Mayorga on his butt. I think he underestimated De La Hoya's power, and that certainly set the tone as in "you come in with no regard and you will go down just as easily. I honestly think it intimidated Mayorga. Nevertheless, Mayorga never quit and showed he was a warrior but he was no match for Oscar -- Oscar, who was too good and too much to handle for Mayorga, not to mention a stylistic nightmare for him.

kirk · Sep 28, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

WTF do these have in common, you ask?

Well, on the surface they are merely the two title fights pulled from the archives by Telefutura and packaged together on Solo Boxeo last week as "classic boxing" in lieu of any live action.

They are also - and this will be met with some resistance but those resisting will be bulldozed into pulp - both great, under-appreciated wins and great, under-appreciated fights.

In the first fight, you have a glimpse of Oscar's offensive ferocity as he slams El Matador down with his tremendous hook in the opening minute. It just doesn't let up from there. People can talk all they want about Mayorga having been softened up by Trinidad and no longer possessing his peak punch resistance; Mayorga showed a great chin as usual, as well as one of the best displays of his vastly underrated boxing skills (which always came out against the best he faced). De La Hoya did not have a wild, free-swinging brawler standing in front of him and plodding forward - far from it, and anyone who tries to claim he did is either lazily filling up holes in a foggy memory, or intentionally falsifying a revisionist view, or never saw the fight. Mayorga tried to box with DLH, and even showed restraint in throwing short combos behind the jab. Oscar's ability to slip shots from the sides was featured as prominently on this night as his power and relentless aggression, though - and the only thing Mayorga could consistently land flush was the uppercut (with the Golden Boy making the sacrifice in his stance and movement of leaving a path open right up the middle to be prepared to block and slip the more looping high punches that were Ricardo's stock and trade). Some of those uppercuts would have switched out the lights of 95% of competitors at 154 then or since. Oscar could also take a hell of a clanging. When the end came, it was unexpected and brutal and holds up to this day as one of the more impressive knockouts of the last decade.

Jhonny Gonzalez, in his last successful WBO bantamweight world title defense, found himself dealing with a tricky customer in the almost gaseous southpaw Irene Pacheco with his hit-once-and-vaporize style. El Raton was already showing technical improvements here despite some sloppy offense, holding back patiently rather than forcing the issue when something wasn't working. Things weren't working out exactly the way Gonzalez wanted for several rounds, attributable to Pacheco being "easy to touch but hard to wallop". Slow and steady wins the race, however - and knowing what to do (and how) when he has a man hurt has never been an issue for Jhonny. Another brutal and overlooked KO over an opponent who's tougher than they're given credit for (the only other person to stop Pacheco was Vic Darchinyan - not exactly a powder-brush).

Granted, neither the Colombian nor the Nicaraguan were on anybody's top p4p lists at the times of these meetings (nor since) but both each was a legitimate presence at their weight - Pacheco a top contender gaining a head of steam, and Mayorga the mere babysitter of a vacant title but as dangerous as ever and who really "got up" for his daunting first defense of it, both physically and mentally (puffing stogies in the HBO promos notwithstanding).

Again, there isn't a whole lot of rhyme nor reason in drawing a thread between these two fights (although both do feature then-"it" couple Shane and Jin Mosley seated snugly together at ringside). The producers at Solo Boxeo may have simply been looking for showcase performances of two of their favorite sons of Mexico (although, I'm aware, some Mexicans don't want to fully claim the "Hollywood gringo") - yet wanting to avoid airing any non-competitive blowouts or slaughters. These are very good examples of left-hook artistas matched up against respectable opposition over whom they were able to be dominant and show a bit of the other tools that supplement their gancho de izquierda.

Neither is probably going to be hailed as an ATG, but both De La Hoya and Gonzalez should make it into every self-respecting HOF - and when it comes to pure offensive fury, they're two of the most formidable p4p Mexican fighters of their generation. Here was a chance to see them both plying their trade on victims who were not about to lie down for them (but were ultimately forced to through sheer savagery).

If you didn't save Solo Boxeo to your DVR last week, I strongly recommend that you hunt one or both of these down on Youtube (or dig them out if you have career collections of either boxer). Both are quality viewing and worth revisiting.
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Forgot to add, good post.... as usual. :good

IntentionalButt · Sep 30, 2010

kirk said: ↑

Forgot to add, good post.... as usual. :good
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Thanks, and thanks for taking part in the discussion.

Fight fans often have this sort of "use once and discard" attitude toward anything but FOTY candidates, unification matches, and other so-called big events (like ones that take place in Cowboys Stadium, or involve faded legends). The notion of so many solid scraps being treated as disposable kind of gets to me. It makes it very tempting to jump at any chance to heat up some tasty leftovers, so when Solo Boxeo dug these two morsels out of the freezer that is their video vault it was almost a compulsion for me to set the table here.

Now, there's been ample reflection so far on Oscar's performance (and rightly so) - arguably his last great one, and one for which he was sold short on credit even at the time - but it's also worth noting that the other Mexican hero in this equation (who is, unlike Oscar, still active and making waves & winning world titles) began a run of 15 really good performances in a row with the win over Pacheco...which would very probably be 15 wins if it weren't for a couple of perfect shots landed by Nishioka and Penalosa. This is all after people wrote Jhonny off when he came up short in the end of his brutal exchange with Israel Vazquez. Since that furious melee he is 13-2 (12) against mostly good opposition. He got the ball rolling with the battering of Pacheco - who he retired, incidentally. Pacheco wasn't exactly spry at 36 but still could have brought something to the table at bantamweight or maybe super flyweight if he could make the cut (this was before Darchinyan moved up, with a title picture that included the likes of Dimitri Kirilov). Mambaco only ever took two beatings - but one was shorter, meaner and a more convincing defeat...and that's the one that took all the fight out of him, literally.

eliqueiros · Oct 1, 2010

Yeah, I just finished watching DLH vs Wilfredo Rivera. It was a very good fight, much better than I remembered. There's a whole bunch of fights not really old enough for the classic forum but which don't get talked about much although they were good ones. It seems we often just keep talking about controversial decisions. Addie's very good at bringing up the good stuff. Kudos to him and you I.B.:good

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