Outside of peak Roided Mike Tyson, Usyk beats everyone else in history ?????

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 11:01 AM

Serge said: ↑

I don't think anyone actually believes Usyk is the GOAT

If these other 'great' fighters do all the things or some of the things I mentioned, the things Usyk has not done, they deserve to be criticized for it not given a free pass for doing so and it absolutely needs to be brought up especially in hypothetical match up threads featuring them vs Usyk or in terms of their and his respective ATG rankings and greatness

Like I said, context gets completely ignored by so many of Usyk, Loma etc. detractors and haters which is really unfair. Fighters who turned pro way later than ones who turned pro in their teens and had 20 odd fights compared to 50-70 simply cannot have as much depth to their records

They also turn pro at higher or much higher weights than fighters who turned pro in their teens did so for example, as I have explained many times, when Loma was the same age as Manny was when he turned pro he was campaigning down at Atomweight with same day weigh ins, ie. the lowest weight class in amateur boxing, so if he turned pro then 135 would be like his 8th or 9th weigh class and he weighs about 10-12lbs less than Manny.

If he turned pro at say 19 135 would be at least his 6th weight class with same day weigh ins

You say size isn't everything at HW and there are diminishing returns but tiny blown up126 Loma was routinely giving away 10-15lbs at 135, even often giving up weight or a lot of weight at 126 and 130, and huge amounts of reach, and was giving up 20lbs and almost 6'' in reach to Haney, in his backyard, with a 36 hour weigh in, and with a home ref and three home judges

Whereas, in complete contrast, Crawford, as said, has very often been the much or bigger man, rarely smaller or significantly so, and extremely rarely much smaller

Why dis Loma look so tiny at 135? Why did all those guys look much or way bigger than him? Because they were

Has Crawford ever looked undersized at any weight he's fought at? Why does he look bigger or roughly the same size as almost all his opponents? Because he was/is

But you don't like Loma either

And obviously fighters who have the huge luxury of coming from the US where their best fighters are not only the least likely to travel but on the rare occasions they do the officials have to be neutral or at least have some fair representation, whereas, conversely, foreigners fight in their country the deck is heavily stacked with a home ref and three home judges and huge parts of their legacies are cruelly stolen from them time and time again in these legacy defining fights but so many fans not only don't care one iota about it they derive pleasure from watching it happen over and over again

I would agree that Clenelo is better in historical sense than any of Usyk's wins but I don't think he's a more dangerous opponent or risky or difficult fight for Crawford than some of Usyk's were for him. For starters, Crawford is the same size as him with a much longer reach, he hasn't stopped anyone in four years despite the fact he's been cherrypicking like crazy, and he cannot deal with a certain style to save his life. The combination of huge/obscene physical advantages that Usyk is routinely having to contend with and overcome, the huge power of his opponents, the skill, athleticism and speed these giants have for their size, and fighting them on a deck stacked in their favour etc. makes them much a more difficult and dangerous proposition for Usyk than anything Crawford has ever had to contend with or ever will.

I think Crawford is a superb fighter and I've had him P4P top 3 for god knows how long and I rate him as one of the top 3-4 most skilfill fighters in the world and have done for a very long time too. I also like him and his style. However, what Usyk and Loma are/were doing is very different, more risky and impressive than what Crawford has done and is doing. Clearly.

I know Usyk and Crawford respect each other a lot but Crawford actually hurled his toys out of the pram about Loma being ranked P4P#1 over him even though Loma clearly had a better resume than him at the time and fully deserved it. You ask Usyk or Loma who is P4P#1 and they're too humble to name themselves

Crawford himself is telling you he deserves to be the GOAT if he beats Clenelo, not his fans and posters on message boards. I completely disagree he does not deserve the right to believe so and it should anger you that he does like it does when others say Usyk is
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On the contrary, I don't dislike loma either, but fansboys where saying he's the best ever and flaming other greats before he proved it as a pro

I don't dislike usyk or loma, why would I?
Do I dislike the toxic fanbase that hate on other boxers from other parts of the globe in recent history? Yeah I would admit that

It's sad that many fanboys make me want usyk to lose when i do respect his character. You can go back to my early postings when I joined this forum. I usually praised Usyk, but I am not gonna lie,I want him to lose now. It likely won't happen anyway, but I'm not going to lie. I want him to get beat

Serge · Jun 21, 2025 at 11:11 AM

AdamT said: ↑

On the contrary, I don't dislike loma either, but fansboys where saying he's the best ever and flaming other greats before he proved it as a pro

I don't dislike usyk or loma, why would I?
Do I dislike the fantasy that hate on other boxers from other parts of the globe in recent history? Yeah I would admit that

It's sad that many fanboys make me want usyk to lose when i do respect his character. You can go back to my early postings when I joined this forum. I usually praised Usyk, but I am not gonna lie,I want him to lose now. It likely won't happen anyway, but I'm not going to lie. I want him to get beat
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You said you hoped Twink knocks Loma's head off, the fighter who ducked Loma like crazy for six-seven years in his own country, with a home ref and three home judges on a deck heavily stacked in his favour where Loma would've needed to KO him to come away with a draw.

The fighter who in complete contrast to Loma who took crazy risks coming right out of the gate, dared to be great, sought out the best time and time again, moved up in weight not because he was a massive weight bully who could no longer make weight but because he was a legacy fighter who dared to be great, and unlike Twink who somehow still retains his 0 even though he categorically deserved to lose, has been cruelly robbed of making history and a huge part of his legacy more than once and is unfairly crucified for it despite doing everything you could ask of any fighter and conducting himself with pure class throughout his career

Loma embodies everything right and great about the sport, Twink far from it

You should see Twink's fanboy. I can assure they're some of the worst ever. Take a gander at them on social media and other fanboys of other fighters on there too. You think Usyk fans are bad? We're positively angelic compared to some of these other groups of fanboys. They're the definition of toxic FFS

And if you did it might dawn on you that we are reacting to them and their constant hate.

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 12:22 PM

Serge said: ↑

You said you hoped Twink knocks Loma's head off, the fighter who ducked Loma like crazy for six-seven years in his own country, with a home ref and three home judges on a deck heavily stacked in his favour where Loma would've needed to KO him to come away with a draw.

The fighter who in complete contrast to Loma who took crazy risks coming right out of the gate, dared to be great, sought out the best time and time again, moved up in weight not because he was a massive weight bully who could no longer make weight but because he was a legacy fighter who dared to be great, and unlike Twink who somehow still retains his 0 even though he categorically deserved to lose, has been cruelly robbed of making history and a huge part of his legacy more than once and is unfairly crucified for it despite doing everything you could ask of any fighter and conducting himself with pure class throughout his career

Loma embodies everything right and great about the sport, Twink far from it

You should see Twink's fanboy. I can assure they're some of the worst ever. Take a gander at them on social media and other fanboys of other fighters on there too. You think Usyk fans are bad? We're positively angelic compared to some of these other groups of fanboys. They're the definition of t
oxic FFS

And if you did it might dawn on you that we are reacting to them and their constant hate.
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Tanks fans don't think he's the goat
People saying loma is greater than the likes of Ray Robinson and Leonard is a joke

Just like saying usyk is greater than Ali. Is usyk better than Ali? That's up for debate, but greater? Not a chance.

I'm not going to get into debates anymore about this. I'm back from a lengthy ban and I'm done with the usyk back and forwards. You all know where I stand, I'm very transparent and I know where others stand

I will still post in threads if people ask questions on who he can beat or not, but I'm going to try and enjoy other topics now. For me the Canelo vs Bud fight is much bigger than any other upcoming fight and gladly I don't have a horse in that fight and don't care who wins, because it can be very toxic when picking sides. I just hope it's not a stinker,as many people will watch on netflix and it would be good for the sport if we got something that resembles the first Fury vs usyk fight which I did enjoy, despite Fury losing

Serge · Jun 21, 2025 at 12:57 PM

AdamT said: ↑

Tanks fans don't think he's the goat
People saying loma is greater than the likes of Ray Robinson and Leonard is a joke

Just like saying usyk is greater than Ali. Is usyk better than Ali? That's up for debate, but greater? Not a chance.

I'm not going to get into debates anymore about this. I'm back from a lengthy ban and I'm done with the usyk back and forwards. You all know where I stand, I'm very transparent and I know where others stand

I will still post in threads if people ask questions on who he can beat or not, but I'm going to try and enjoy other topics now. For me the Canelo vs Bud fight is much bigger than any other upcoming fight and gladly I don't have a horse in that fight and don't care who wins, because it can be very toxic when picking sides. I just hope it's not a stinker,as many people will watch on netflix and it would be good for the sport if we got something that resembles the first Fury vs usyk fight which I did enjoy, despite Fury losing
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Usyk and Loma fans don't think they're the GOATs. Fans taking part in good natured trolling or haters masquerading as fans to try and poison others against them is what you're seeing. I don't know why it bothers you so much Usyk is amazing and he's the nicest guy in the world

The prime version, which is clearly not this version, at his best, is a problem for anyone

Your wish is going to come true soon and, as I've said numerous times, it could be as soon as his next fight. At his age, giving away the physical advantages he is, fighting on a eck stacked against him, and fighting these younger/much younger prime legit bangers and murderous punchers who are far from slow, unathletic and unskilled, he's playing Russian roulette everytime he steps foot in the ring and eventually you're going to pull the trigger when the bullet is in the wrong chamber

And the toxic fanbases I'm referring to hideously overrate their favs and their P4P lists are beyond comical and by far the most biased you will ever see.

And FTR, Loma is categorically one of the most skilled fighters I've ever seen and a generational talent who was cursed with rotten luck and made some big mistakes regarding his career choices. Don't forget he jumped right into a 12 rounder world title fight against a very experienced reigning world champion in just his 2nd fight and then jumped right back into another one vs a 24-0 GRJ in the US with a home ref and 3 home judges which was an incredibly ballsy thing to do against an excellent opponent and had he lost his career would've been in tatters at with a 1-2 record albeit he was cheated against Salido. There is a current North American fighter who has ever done once what he did then and had done like 7 times in total (fighting their foreign opponent in their backyard with a home ref and 3 home judges) and they won't ever do it once in their entire careers either

Even Usyk didn't step up to world level until his 10th fight

Fair enough

It should be a good one and I'm intrigued to see how it plays out. I favour Crawford as there is no size disparity and Clenelo is past his prime, his power and finishing ability has waned, and he cannot deal with the boxer mover style

mrbigshot · Jun 21, 2025 at 1:05 PM

Serge said: ↑

Like I said, context gets completely ignored by so many of Usyk, Loma etc. detractors and haters which is really unfair. Fighters who turned pro way later than ones who turned pro in their teens and had 20 odd fights compared to 50-70 simply cannot have as much depth to their records

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I do not think usyk was ever blamed that he turned pro late and of course cannot have 60-80 opponents .

But he lost his face at heavy when it became obvious that he nevertheless avoids fighting where he only can although there are fresh opponents , fights - if at all -only guys who he has already beaten , ducks mandatory title defences and much more .

Tankatron · Jun 21, 2025 at 1:09 PM

If a well past his best Chisora, Bellew, Breidis, Hunter and Fury can give Usyk fits, I'd argue that the absolute best, prime and conditioned Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Tim Witherspoon, Mercer, Ruddock, David Haye and a few others that escape me right now would all have a shot at beating Usyk. Someone like Bowe, who is as tough as a coffin nail, can punch, work inside and when in shape has a good if not great gas tank would be a horrible match up for Usyk.

Usyk's main issue up at HW is a lack of true, one shot KO power. Someone like Bowe or Vitali Klitschko could potentially just walk right through him. Not saying that WOULD happen but, a big Super HW with a high work rate and who can hurt with every single shot cannot just be completely dismissed. Dismissing top 10 ATG HW's so readily is just down right disrespectful and a classic case of 'IDKSAB'.

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 1:30 PM

Serge said: ↑

Usyk and Loma fans don't think they're the GOATs. Fans taking part in good natured trolling or haters masquerading as fans to try and poison others against them is what you're seeing. I don't know why it bothers you so much Usyk is amazing and he's the nicest guy in the world

The prime version, which is clearly not this version, at his best, is a problem for anyone

Your wish is going to come true soon and, as I've said numerous times, it could be as soon as his next fight. At his age, giving away the physical advantages he is, fighting on a eck stacked against him, and fighting these younger/much younger prime legit bangers and murderous punchers who are far from slow, unathletic and unskilled, he's playing Russian roulette everytime he steps foot in the ring and eventually you're going to pull the trigger when the bullet is in the wrong chamber

And the toxic fanbases I'm referring to hideously overrate their favs and their P4P lists are beyond comical and by far the most biased you will ever see.

And FTR, Loma is categorically one of the most skilled fighters I've ever seen and a generational talent who was cursed with rotten luck and made some big mistakes regarding his career choices. Don't forget he jumped right into a 12 rounder world title fights against a very experienced reigning world champion and then jumped right back into another one Vs a 24-0 GRJ in the US with a home ref and 3 home judges which was an incredibly ballsy thing to do against a excellent opponent and had he lost his career would've been in tatters at with a 1-2 record albeit he was cheated against Salido. There is t a current North American fighter who will ever do once what he did then and had done like 7 times in total (fighting their foreign opponent in their backyard with a home ref and 3 home judges) and they won't ever do it once in their entire careers

Even Usyk didn't step up to world level until his 10th fight

Fair enough

It should be a good one and I'm intrigued to see how it plays out. I favour Crawford as there is no size disparity and Clenelo is past his prime, his power and finishing ability has waned, and he cannot deal with the boxer mover style
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You must think nothing of Duran giving hagler a good fight or Leonard beating him, because was hagler much bigger? You know it comes down to more than height and reach. Canelo is thicker and been at the weight much longer than bud who is fighting in new waters, despite how he looks

Holyfield is much lighter naturally than usyk, shorter and I believe he has less reach too. What about Mike being under 5'11 and under 71 inch reach? Should they get extra credit for being little guys?

You're a good poster, but it's nonsense to not give Bud huge credit climbing up 2 divisions to defeat a guy who has won world titles at 175.

Did bivol only beat canelo because he was bigger then?

I don't care if Bud looks like Mike Tyson. He's a former lw attempting to become undisputedin his third weight division and jumping two divisions to do it. This forum will not agree, but I guarantee you if Bud beats Canelo and beats him well? He will leapfrog usyk to be p4p number 1 and likely be ahead in manys all time list

I see you guys looking to downplay Bud jumping up 2 divisions, because he looked bigger, but that's fair enough. You guys can do and say what you like, like I can. I'm not fighting about it. I think canelo wins, but if not? Bud is p4p number 1 in probably every ranking system

Serge · Jun 21, 2025 at 1:58 PM

AdamT said: ↑

You must think nothing of Duran giving hagler a good fight or Leonard beating him, because was hagler much bigger? You know it comes down to more than height and reach. Canelo is thicker and been at the weight much longer than bud who is fighting in new waters, despite how he looks

Holyfield is much lighter naturally than usyk, shorter and I believe he has less reach too. What about Mike being under 5'11 and under 71 inch reach? Should they get extra credit for being little guys?

You're a good poster, but it's nonsense to not give Bud huge credit climbing up 2 divisions to defeat a guy who has won world titles at 175.

Did bivol only beat canelo because he was bigger then?

I don't care if Bud looks like Mike Tyson. He's a former lw attempting to become undisputedin his third weight division and jumping two divisions to do it. This forum will not agree, but I guarantee you if Bud beats Canelo and beats him well? He will leapfrog usyk to be p4p number 1 and likely be ahead in manys all time list

I see you guys looking to downplay Bud jumping up 2 divisions, because he looked bigger, but that's fair enough. You guys can do and say what you like, like I can. I'm not fighting about it. I think canelo wins, but if not? Bud is p4p number 1 in probably every ranking system
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No, I think everything of Duran coming up in weight and actually fighting bigger guys in their backyards or on the road. Duran is literally one of my top 3 favourite all time fighters

You still don't get it. Massive weight bullies who turn pro in their teens and were gigantic/huge for the 1st weight, 2nd weight, still very big or big for their 3rd and at worst are fighting opponents roughly their own size when they move up even further ala Crawford is much easier and less risky and dangerous than fighters who turned pro as full grown men much later who are fighting way, much or bigger men when they ascend through the divisions. They're very different things and one is a lot more impressive and difficult to do

Just as fighting at home 40 times out of your 41 fights on a deck stacked heavily or stacked in your favour is much less impressive than fighting in your opponents in their backyard or on the road is that much more difficult and more impressive

As is fighting lots of murderous punchers or legit bangers not only your size but bigger, much or way bigger than you is that much more difficult and impressive than fighting tons of featherfists and average punchers at best and very few legit banger and KO artsis your size, let alone way bigger

Clenelo and Crawford turned pro at almost the exact same weight. But I'm sure the respective ages they turned pro will suddenly be an important piece of context now though

No matter how you try and spin it Crawford, who FTR posted this photo of himself weighing a super lean 177lbs over seven years ago, is virtually the same size as Clenelo.

If he actually was doing what Usyk and Loma did ie. was actually facing way bigger opponents who hold huge or obscene physical advantages over him I would give him the credit for doing so. I'm not going to play this silly little game where we pretend it's David vs Goliath because that's what others are doing

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The size difference between Clenelo and Bivol was 3-5lbs and 1.5'' in reach

Mike's lack of size wasn't a disadvantage he's built like a freaking and was crazy powerful and sturdy for his size. Freakishly so

You mean the same Holyfield walking pharmacy lab creation who had to joust every PED known to science in his ass to bridge the gap to campaign against bigger men?

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 2:01 PM

Serge said: ↑

No, I think everything of Duran coming up in weight and actually fighting bigger guys in their backyards or on the road. Duran is literally one of my top 3 favourite all time fighters

You still don't get it. Massive weight bullies who turn pro in their teens and were gigantic/huge for the 1st weight, 2nd weight, still very big or big for their 3rd and at worst are fighting opponents roughly their own size when they move up even further ala Crawford is much easier and less risky and dangerous than fighters who turned pro as full grown men much later who are fighting way, much or bigger men when they ascend through the divisions. They're very different things and one is a lot more impressive and difficult to do

Just as fighting at home 40 times out of your 41 fights on a deck stacked heavily or stacked in your favour is much less impressive than fighting in your opponents in their backyard or on the road is that much more difficult and more impressive

As is fighting lots of murderous punchers or legit bangers not only your size but bigger, much or way bigger than you is that much more difficult and impressive than fighting tons of featherfists and average punchers at best and very few legit banger and KO artsis your size, let alone way bigger

Clenelo and Crawford turned pro at almost the exact same weight. But I'm sure the respective ages they turned pro will suddenly be an important piece of context now though

No matter how you try and spin it Crawford, who FTR posted this photo of himself weighing a super lean 177lbs over seven years ago, is virtually the same size as Clenelo.

If he actually was doing what Usyk and Loma did ie. was actually facing way bigger opponents who hold huge or obscene physical advantages over him I would give him the credit for doing so. I'm not going to play this silly little game where we pretend it's David vs Goliath because that's what others are doing

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The size difference between Clenelo and Bivol was 3-5lbs and 1.5'' in reach

Mike's lack of size wasn't a disadvantage he's built like a freaking and was crazy powerful and sturdy for his size. Freakishly so

You mean the same Holyfield walking pharmacy lab creation who had to joust every PED known to science in his ass to bridge the gap to campaign against bigger men?
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OK,I'm wrong
You are right as usual

Serge · Jun 21, 2025 at 2:06 PM

AdamT said: ↑

OK,I'm wrong
You are right as usual
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Well of course I think I'm right. Just as you think you are.

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 2:10 PM

Serge said: ↑

Well of course I think I'm right. Just as you think you are.
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Man I don't even care anymore about the whole usyk/fury/bud stuff.

People think I troll, but I'm going to say this. I swear on my entire families lives and future I think Floyd was a better, more skilled fighter than usyk or loma. The reason I am putting this statement, is to prove I strongly believe he is better. It doesn't mean he us of course, but I have way too much respect for my family to say a lie on their health. I think he proved he was more skilled as a pro

I wonder if those who downplay Floyd are as willing to match their opinion like mine. I just wish there was a lie detector to see who really believes what they type. I certainly do

Have a good weekend

UniversalPart · Jun 21, 2025 at 2:32 PM

Beterbiev is much smaller than prime Tyson and he found Usyk's body to be a weak point in all 3 of their fights...

I am sure someone with a good body attack would be able to get to Usyk

AdamT · Jun 21, 2025 at 2:40 PM

UniversalPart said: ↑

Beterbiev is much smaller than prime Tyson and he found Usyk's body to be a weak point in all 3 of their fights...

I am sure someone with a good body attack would be able to get to Usyk
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To be fair that was amateur
Parker should be next, but I'd love to see the fight vs kabayel after Dubois

It would be a great clash of styles and answer a lot of questions

Philosopher · Jun 22, 2025 at 4:50 AM

AdamT said: ↑

Man I don't even care anymore about the whole usyk/fury/bud stuff.

People think I troll, but I'm going to say this. I swear on my entire families lives and future I think Floyd was a better, more skilled fighter than usyk or loma. The reason I am putting this statement, is to prove I strongly believe he is better. It doesn't mean he us of course, but I have way too much respect for my family to say a lie on their health. I think he proved he was more skilled as a pro

I wonder if those who downplay Floyd are as willing to match their opinion like mine. I just wish there was a lie detector to see who really believes what they type. I certainly do

Have a good weekend
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Floyd, for me, is better than Loma and Usyk. Agreed.

AdamT · Jun 22, 2025 at 5:33 AM

Philosopher said: ↑

Floyd, for me, is better than Loma and Usyk. Agreed.
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The eye test doesn't lie
The opposition doesn't lie
The punch stats don't lie

He just looks better imo and that is his way greater defence and his I.q which I think is greater than usyk, who does have great iq himself

Not everyone has to agree, but Floyd for all his faults was an astonishing talent in the ring

My post was originally way ott, but I stand by it and am very confident that Floyd was more skilled. I'd ace a lie detector, as there is zero doubt in my mind Floyd is better than these guys

I understand there will be those feeling as strongly for loma and usyk and that's fine. It's just opinions anyway

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Outside of peak Roided Mike Tyson, Usyk beats everyone else in history ?????

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Outside of peak Roided Mike Tyson, Usyk beats everyone else in history ?????

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