ow much prime/near prime film do we have of Ezzard Charles?

Lesnevich was bailed out by Billy Fox whose whole career was built up on fixed fights. What a shame that Charles would be frozen out of the title picture by a fraud of a fighter.

 

Don't you know this otherwise common sense and time and again proven theory doesn't apply to Marciano opponents ... they all peaked right about the time they fought Rocky ... Louis, Walcott, Charles, Moore .. average age 37 plus, were all in their prime against Marciano ... :blood

 

:yep Louis did not peak for marciano, he was a resonable contender at that time. walcott, charles and moore all fought marciano when they were on top of their game.

ezzard charles's 1951-54 win ratio is neglegable against his 1946-51 record and his KO percentage was actualy higher in the 36 months since losing the title against at that time rated contenders than ever before.

 

He wasnt frozen out though, the title was frozen because of world war2. charles was also absent from boxing during those years anyway.

Charles was only ever #1 LH contender for one year only and during that time he also fought HW contenders which the champion also did.

The LH division was still a bit wishy washy, the champs and contenders all moonlighted as heavyweights. They were considered small heavyweights who only fought eachother when they couldnt get fights with other heavyweights.

 

Charles was frozen out in 1946-1948 without a single doubt.

 

I think charles could have got a crack in 1947, there was no need to fight fox or mills twice, but I dont see it as that big a deal when both champ and contenders are taking as many fights at the weight above. ring magazine obviously felt lesnevich was doing a good job without facing charles otherwise he would not have made their fighter of the year. It only looks outrageous now because we think of contenders being exclusive to their division.

 

I have a source at the time saying the title was not frozen for Lesnevich, here it is:

The Palm Beach Post explains:
New York, Aug 15 – A wholesale house cleaning is imminent among the boxing champions and will only be partially averted by the war.
With the exception of the dormant Flyweight division, in which the title is vacant, Only three crowns are not in jeopardy. They are:
Heavyweight – Joe Louis
Middleweight – Tony Zale
Bantamweight – Manuel Ortiz
Four titleholders are in the armed forces. Louis is in the army, Gus Lesnevich, light-heavyweight king, is in the Coast Guard. Zale and Freddie Cochrane, welterweight ruler, are in the navy.
The military are taking a firm stand on soldiers and sailors taking part in commercial boxing ventures in which at least 50 per cent is not given to a war fund. Furloughs are limited, and it is unlikely that a boxer would be given the six weeks necessary to train for a championship bout.
Champions in uniform are therefore reasonably secure for the duration.
There is no serious challenger of Louis at this time. Bob Pastor and Billy Conn have had their chances. Young Tami Mauriello is a couple of years away, and the champion does not care to fight Melio Bettina, a southpaw.
Of the three contenders for Zale’s crown none are imposing enough to impair his championship stature unless it is Ezzard Charles, young Cincinnati Negro. The rebuilt Fred Apostoli is also a possibility.
Lesnevich has more challengers than he can handle. He already has been beaten by Jimmy Bivins, and has Anton Christiforidis, the growing Charles, Mose Brown, and Ken Overlin to worry about.

Its pretty clear that Lesnevich's title was not officialy frozen and he was under pressure to defend it.

And heres an article in the lead up to the Charles vs Mose Brown bout, stating Lesnevich could make a defence of his title:

To me it is clear that Lesnevich could have defended his title in 1942 against Bivins or Charles, and probably should have.

(I'm not entirely sure why the Brown vs Lesnevich title was cancelled, I heard that Brown was barred from fighting for the title, also)

Didn't know that, nice little tid-bit. I think its clear Lesnevich wanted to cash in on his title with the littlest risk possible.

It is something important, but Charles and Bivins tended to fly under the radar and that people in the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Cleveland area, tended to think these guys (and with good cause) were the legitimate challengers. The NY based Ring may not have known these guys full credentials as there was a bit of a NY bias at the time.

 

Thanks for posting this:good. intresting stuff.
sometimes boxing articles are written about things that never actually pan out. dreadnought division, world titles on navy ships, ali-bobick, holmes -coetzee, ali foreman2 etc etc.
Nobody at that time knew how long the war was going to last and the up shot was lesnavich was not stripped possibly because his contenders (Charles among them) were also away in the forces also. This source seems to imply that lesnevich "has his hands full" and would sit out the war and choose not to defend his title? with a manager representing him in the interests of making a profit this sounds like bad business.
The more I study it the more I think the Light heavyweight division was a stop gap weight, I don’t think anyone really wanted the title in the way we think. The LH title was a semi precious vehicle to make money and use as a spring board into the heavyweight rankings. It was where the cruiserweight title was in the 1980s, Michael Spinks and Michael moorer bypassed it.

 

Very interesting info about Gus and Ez ... nice work !

 

I agree there but it seems to be pretty accurate, would you not think? It is not quite speculation, more reporting the decision of the NBA and summing up the status of the other champions.

It states that only three titles were frozen indefinitely and that was mainly due to lack of competition. The other titles were free assuming the fighter could attain a furlough to have time to defend his title.

The second article shows that Lesnevich could have had the time to defend his title late-1942 or early 1943, according to his manager, but did not defend the title.

Fair point there. Although what did the duties of Coastguard entail? To me it seems a cushier job that would have allowed Lesnevich to continue training and fighting. I'm assuming he was not overseas.

Again fair point. I don;t think Lesnevich should have been stripped but he should have, and could have, made a title defense in late 1942 or early-1943. The fact is he didn't.

Interesting take on that. I think it more alludes to the fact that Lesnevich would struggle to retain the title, and there being a good possibility he would be dethroned. In fact I am certain if Charles or Bivins was giving a shot they would have beaten him.

It does, I think his manager wanted to defend the title but for low risks. When Christiforidis, Charles, Bivins, and Mose Brown were the named contenders by the NBA, Lesnevich tried to secure a defense against the weakest and least qualified contender in Brown. The fact it did not come off, for whatever reason, is irrelevant. It showed that Lesnevich was not one to take the big risks and wanted the easy option.

The Brown fight is an odd one, I have two reasons of why it was cancelled, one that Lesnevich had to resume service and did not have time to defend his title, the other was that Brown was for some reason barred from the fight, but I have not been able to find any reason why he would have been. His record however is not that of a top contender but he was very highly regarded of the time and may have beaten Billy Soose around that time, which would make his record stand up to scrutiny as a challenger IMO, but it is unconfirmed, and I believe it did not happen.

I'm not sure this was the case with Charles though. He was an aspiring Middleweight champion but the decision to freeze the title over the war was severely damaging to this hope so in response, he turned to the Light-Heavyweights to secure a title, and weighing at the mid 160lb mark its hard to seeing him have serious Heavyweight aims in the near future.

I think Charles turned to the Light-Heavyweight division because the Middleweight title was frozen, and tackled Heavyweights out of necessity, it should be mentioned that Charles only fought one Heavyweight prior to joining the army, and that was the relatively untested, and small Joey Maxim (who later became a Light-Heavyweight), hardly a calculated assault on the Heavyweight division.

 

Glad you find it interesting. Its very complex and to me it appears, Lesnevich should be given the handle, 'Reluctant Gus'.

 

Yes I agree with this assesment on the first part of charles's career, charles age 19, 20 and 21 was a thin middlewight, he was moved too early into the LH divison because zale wasnt going to be defending. for a time he got by on talent alone but taking the bad beatings in 1943 (his final active year before the draft) proved where charles was at at that time. burned out or in the wrong division.

After the war at age 24 charles had finaly filled out into a real lightheavyweight. He couldnt make middle if he wanted to. At that time talented lightheavys fought HW's all the time, it was basicaly one weight class with anything over 170 being HW only there was a belt for the smaller ones called lightheavy. If charles got a crack at lesnevich and won he would not have defended that title.

 

He wasnt that reluctant against #1 heavyweight contender tami mauriello who outweighted him by 20lb or melio bettina the heavyweight joe louis didnt want who outweighed gus by 11 pounds and was knocked out in one round the only time in his career. bettina had drew with bivins and beat curtis shepard.

 

I think you may be underrating Charles a wee bit here. He was obviously one of the best at the weight his KO over Christoforidis proves this, he was world class, no doubt about it.

I'm not sure what to make of 1943, I think the Bivins loss could have been Bivins being the better man and Charles finding it out brutally. Again, Bivins was a great fighting machine, and probably by far the best Light-Heavyweight around at the time, and heavyweight (excluding Louis). No shame in losing to Bivins really, is there?

I'm sure if there was a rematch soon afterwards Charles would have fared better. And maybe we are overlooking Charles' injury.

The Marshall fight was a few months later so Charles could have been off the boil, unfit etc....

Its an interesting take you have, and I get you. I just disagree. I think Charles was genuinely a world class Light-Heavyweight in 1942, and you don't become the only man to KO Christoforidis on talent alone. Charles wasn't just out-boxing guys in 1942, he was out-punching them and destroying them also.

I agree here. Although I don't think his lack of sizes stunted him that badly in the earlier part of his career.

But Charles was really a Middleweight at this time, and only fought one Heavyweight, who was for all intents and purposes, a blown up Light-Heavyweight.

Interestingly before Charles joined the army he was not over 170lbs so perhaps he would have stayed as a Light-Heavyweight.

Lets say he got a shot in late 1942 instead of the Joey Maxim rematch. Charles would have weighed about 165-168lbs. I think we both think he would have won?

What do you think his next career move would have been?

I'd have said he would have defended it until he matured into a Light-Heavyweight and then made a serious challenge to the Heavyweights after maturing even more, using the title as a spring board, and perhaps holding onto it, until he secured a title shot.

He was making Light-Heavyweight well after the war, until the Jimmy Doyle fight really. Why wouldn't he have held the title just for keepsakes.

 

He was very reluctant to defend his title against the, by far, two biggest threats in his weight class. When either had seemingly secured a title shot through merit, Mills always seemed to defend against a lesser opponent until the specter went away. Be it by beating the well-connected Billy Fox, or losing to Freddie Mills.