P4P (ALL TIME) how would you rank Saul Alvarez?

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Better than Tyson.

Who thinks Tyson is a top 100'er? Thats what I thought. Now shut up.

 

Being very honest (hope I don't hurt yall feelings), I don't think Canelo even ranks in Top 100. Few years ago, @McGrain made an amazing top 100 boxers P4P of all time list and I believe every boxer on that list ranks higher than Canelo as they all have multiple wins against top opponents or HoFers with little controversy. Not trying to take anything away from Canelo as I know he did more than any boxer are doing right now in terms of resume.

 

This is a bit of a stretch but if I were to choose an active modern boxer today on who I believe might be a good fit in the top 100 boxers p4p of all time, it would be Chocolatito (sheer dominance from 105 to 115 (especially at flyweight), clearly outboxing future HoFer El Gallo and bigger opponents)) and maybe Usyk (I would say he's close due to accomplishments at cruiserweight and heavyweight but he would definitely be on the list if he defeats Fury).

 

Sheer dominance at 115? He barely scraped past Cuadras, then Wangek barely scraped past him, then Wangek dominated and KOd him, then he dominated and KOd Yafai, then he had a close fight with Estrada, then he beat Martinez by decision, then Estrada outboxed him in a decision. That's his total record vs high level fighters at 115. 3-4 officially. Against the absolute elite of the division on paper he went 0-4. You could say 1-3. Not disrespecting his runs below 115, but he really wasn't all that great at 115 despite the fact that's where he achieved his height of stardom.

 

Maybe what I meant to say was a good resume stretched out upon the 4 lowest weight classes not necessarily dominance (except for flyweight of course). I mean Yaegashi, Cuadras, Viloria, Niida, Estrada. Those are good names to put in a resume. Tbh, this is my opinion but I personally believed Choc edged the 2nd fight over Estrada. And you can argue that Choc edged Sor Rungvisai in the first fight.

 

No disrespect to anybody voting the first couple of poll options (top 5 or 10 all time) but, if you did so it goes without saying that

a) you're Mexican
b) you're cringe on legs
c) you're not somebody that should make p4p lists.


Even the next couple (20 and 50 all time) are really hard positions to defend seriously, but I suppose at least somebody that follows boxing closely might espouse them in good faith - however wrongheaded they are - without it meaning they want to floss with red pubes.

 

He is an ATG

Sure he is a PED cheat but they're all on the sauce.

 

What's your cutoff for ATG?

 

In the Top 10 of juicers, maybe Top 5.

 

I am a simple man

I look at accomplishments and calibre of opponents

 

I reckon top 100.

 

You not gonna get many objective post in this thread for the simple fact that Canelo whooped everybody’s favorite hypejob GGG, realistically Canelo is probably top 50-100 and I feel it’s only so far he can go unless he does something crazy not because of him but because of his comp none of these guys is trying to fight each other therefore it’s hard to get a legitimate great win in this era saying that tho he is undeniable the best fighter of his era.
Just going off major wins
154 Trout #1 rated unbeaten WBA titlist, Mayweather #1p4p unbeaten WBA champ, Lara #1 WBA titlist, Smith #4/5 unbeaten WBO Champ
Went 3-1 won WBC,WBO and unify WBA titlist
160 Cotto #1 WBC/Lineal champ, GGG #1 unbeaten 3-belt unified champ 2x, Jacobs #2 IBF Champ
Went 3-0-1 won WBC/Lineal 2x WBA, IBF 2x
168
Fielding #8 WBA titlist, Smtih #1unbeaten WBA/Lineal champ, Saunders #4/5 WBO Champ, Plant #2 IBF Champ went 5-0 and became undisputed
175 Kovalev #3 WBO Champ, Bivol #2 unbeaten WBA champ went 1-1.
Hard to argue then throw in minor wins like Rhodes or Mosley or Angulo or Cintron, dudes want to cry about close fights yet every great fighter in boxing history has had a close or debatable fight every single one from Ray Robinson to Ali to Pacquiao to Floyd. As a fan of Canelo I only wish these other boxers start actually fighting so when he inevitably whoop they ass at least they name will be worth something. But because of a lack of heart but this era I’m total Canelo is limited by how far he can objectively go up that all time list

 

I love the history of boxing and I'll admit I've never attempted to make my own all time p4p list. That said It seems like in these all time debates regardless of the sport, modern guys always get the short end of the stick. Over scrutinized and under appreciated because we have an unprecedented look behind the scenes. I like to ask this question: how can you fairly place modern guys amongst classic guys you don't have anywhere near the insight on? We don't know these guys business practices or training methods of how things may or may not have been stacked in their favor in a time where the curtain was closed to the public.

 

Let his career finish then we can evaluate him properly. Still plenty of unfinished business like Benaivides, Charlo, Spence, Andrade, Bivol rematch etc. if he goes through unscathed then obviously moves up, unlikely he is unscathed and will help evaluate his standing.