P4P better

Another terrible post full of inaccuracies.

 

I agree that there was no overwhelming need for Hearns to take that fight, even though a unification in 1986 would have been more worthwhile than defending against Medal.

But that doesn't mean that Hearns wanted any part of McCallum, at least I don't think Steward did. When he talked about it he said that McCallum caused Hearns trouble in sparring (or at least a specific episode of it) and overall gave the impression that he didn't know how Hearns would fare against McCallum.

So I think that they felt that McCallum was someone they should stay away from. Yes, had he brought the kind of money and recognition Leonard and Hagler did, they'd take the risk, but otherwise I think he was perceived as way too much risk.

I think he probably could have made more of an effort, but it was also a division that was fizzling out a bit going into '96. And Eubank have said on occasion (but might have contradicted it at other times) that he wanted no part of Jones. Benn was never the same after the McClellan fight and lost to a fighter that Jones easily destroyed. Collins did want Jones, though, but I don't think he really was on Jones's radar.

And I don't think Jones felt that anyone was a serious threat to him. But I do feel that at the very least Steward felt that McCallun was a serious threat to Hearns. And looking at what Mugabi brought to the table, I can see him being a threat also. But he seemed more intent on getting Hagler than Hearns tbf.

 

James wasn’t disciplined. We all know that.

But we can’t say that an ATG wouldn’t have lost to…..

Yes, ATG’s did lose to low level opposition.

That has happened frequently. And especially when fighting so frequently.

James was also unlucky to lose to Griffin twice.

And the Tiberi fight was less than 2 months after fighting Mike McCallum, which saw James fight McCallum, Reggie and Nunn, all within a period of just 9 months.

He was fighting almost every 2 months at that point.

So we can forgive the odd performance such as the one against Tiberi. His schedule was just too busy then. And he just went through the motions. Tiberi was a low level guy who he couldn’t get up for. And there was no way that he was 100% physically fit, not from such a quick turn around.

Tiberi was then offered a rematch, but retired after not being able to reach a compromise on the purse.

 

This is not an objective post.

You have given passes for Hearns having followed a certain path, but then have not given Roy the same respect for his reasons.

 

Mike was bitter because the Duran fight was his so he was told. Thats about it. Hearns was fighting Benetiz, SRL, Hagler, Duran, Barkley.
Unless you are making the case that Antoine Byrd, Vinny Paz, Eric Lucas, and Bryan Brennan are in the same league?
Again, RJJ avoided the better guys probably because he was trying to get to 175 to go after the money. But again, he was there at 168 for 2 Years ....

 

look above

 

This is just nonsense.

Roy chased Toney up at SMW.

He then couldn’t obtain fights with guys like Liles at SMW, where Liles’ own manager has said that Liles blew the fight, by trying to change the terms at the last moment.

Roy then moved to LHW, where his objective was to fight Hill. But Dariusz beat Hill first.

Roy and HBO then tried to secure a fight with Dariusz. On numerous occasions they tried to meet with him. But Universum would never meet.

No meetings ever took place.

We have got statements from HBO confirming this.

Roy then tried to fight Hopkins at a C-W, before Hopkins asked for an astronomical amount before taking a year out.

All this is factual and verifiable.

Roy wanted to fight Liles, Dariusz and Hopkins, which would have been huge additions to his resume.

He wanted to fight Hill earlier, but the Griffin DQ scuppered that.

He did not just cherry pick.

If he’d have wanted an easy ride, he could have just defended his IBF belt for years at SMW, just like how Hopkins did at MW.

 

Roy is top 3 all time p4p if we judging by peak form only.

 

I completely agree with you that the distinction between "better" & "greater" comes into play here, but for me it's exactly the opposite of what you said: I see Ray as far better (top 3 all time peak form wise), and Hearns as greater.

 

Yeah, but what has that do with that Steward didn't seem very confident in Hearns ability to beat McCallum? And the fight would have made more sense than the dfence against Medal in 1986.

All these things can be true at the same time without any problems whatsoever.

Come on now. You're comparing most of Hearns's career to two years of Jones's after he beat Toney. That's just silly.

Yes, Hearns faced better fighters in Leonard and Hagler than Jones did (not that there were any of that level available for Jones, though) and Jones's SMW opp after Toney was underwhelming, yes, but to compare Hearns's almost whole 80's to Jones's perhaps two worst years as a champion is not a very honest take.

 

Not really, Jones was 5`11, a lot of the fighters he fought were shorte than that, Toney was only 5`9. Sugar boy Malinga was also 5`9.

 

So on the one hand Toney's loss is excused by him being drained, but on the other he was really smaller? Ffs... You do know that Jones was the one coming up in weight, right, and that he weighed less than Toney in the ring?

It's called "weight classes" not "length classes". You Loma fan boys seem to have lost sight of that. Was Hearns really bigger than Tyson by your reckoning?

 

You haven’t said anything that’s true or objective.

There is a reason he only stayed at SMW for 2 years.

And if he’d have been less ambitious, he could have stayed there for years, just milking his one belt, like Hopkins, Dariusz and Calzaghe did for years.

He was not protected by HBO.

He chased down the best fights.

He wanted Liles.

He went after Hill.

He then went after Dariusz and Hopkins.

This has all been verified.

 

Where's the inaccuracy? Jones was never a lineal champ, he was always only a belt-holder. Sure, he sent over offers (or at least claims to have) but at the end of the day, he was never the man in any division he fought in. He spent the better part of a decade at LHW yet never fought his greatest contemporary. It wasn't solely his fault mind you, both parties played a role, but it remains a stain on his legacy nonetheless.

 

I specifically said at 168 for RJJ. And Hearns did fight Benetiz, Duran , Hagler in a 2 year half window...
And dont even know why you brought that up? . I already gave you the reasons why RJJ did it. imo. so what else do you want? I have Hearns slightly ahead of RJJ and I gave the reasons for it