P4P better

Mark, you have been saying this nonsense for years.

Go and look at Roy’s opponents.

Their heights.

Reach.

Weight.

Roy didn’t have any size advantages at LHW, apart from when fighting a guy like Griffin, who was an anomaly at the weight.

 

To compare Hearns over seven years in total to just Jones two worst in terms of opp was just such a weird thing to do. And if you specifically said 168 it's even weirder that you leave out Jones best win there.

If you want to compare careers, do that. Don't specifically pick a short, poor period of one fighter to the best of the other fighter stretching over many more years, You're going Mark Ant on me here. Is it so hard to make a decent case for Hearns?

For what RJJ did? I don't understand this.

 

Everything I posted was true. We have already gone over this years ago. I have repeated myself in this thread again. And you have too.
I will say this as I have said in this thread and every other thread when it gets brought up now for the millionth time. RJJ didnt challenge himself enough , . He's got the same problem, albeit to a lesser degree, legacy wise as Floyd. He was cherry picker. Which is exactly why both fighters are on the outside p4p the top 25 looking in. I have RJJ ahead of Floyd by about 10 spots. I will also say ...

 

When? Mugabi moved up to fight Hagler in 86 while Hearns moved up to light heavy the following year and beat Andries, he also won a middleweight title that year beating Roldan, so he wouldn`t have fought Mugabi in 87, he moved up to 160 and fought Shuler in 86 after being out of the ring for a year with a broken right hand from the Hagler fight, Mugabi went missing for a year after losing to Hagler.
Because of his ability to fight both at junior middleweight and middleweight, fans began to talk about the possibility of him challenging either world light middleweight champion Hearns or world middleweight champion Hagler in 1985. Despite Mugabi being a mandatory contender for some time, a Hearns - Mugabi title match never materialised, as Hearns elected to move to Middleweight to challenge Marvelous Marvin Hagler. Considering his streak and Hagler's tough battle with Hearns on April 15, 1985, some felt Mugabi had a shot at doing what eleven men before him could not: wresting Hagler's undisputed world middleweight title from him. On March 10, 1986, Marvin ‘Marvelous’ Hagler rose to a very stiff challenge. A young, undefeated powerhouse was destroying every opponent in his path. John ‘The Beast’ Mugabi had won all of his contests by knockout—many spectacular; many in the first few rounds of the fight. He possessed incredible knockout power and provided the boxing world with an epic encounter.

 

look above.. and I know you are high on Floyd so you will enjoy that one

I think RJJ cherry picked at 168 to wait to go to 175 for more money , btw to answer your question.....

 

It is crystal clear in every post that you make, where you always falsely claim that he didn’t try and become the lineal champion and fight the best.

Now in the last 3 month alone, I have repeated told you that HBO and Roy’s advisors chased down the Dariusz fight.

I have posted on here direct quotes from various members of the HBO team, where they say that they tried to get Universum to the negotiating table.

They tried on numerous occasions to reach out.

Yet they were ignored.

Their calls weren’t being answered or returned.

Not a single meeting ever took place, because they were never willing to meet.

That is a fact.

In the end, they sent over a fax. (this was in 2001)

Because they couldn’t speak on the phone, they faxed over a proposal.

A proposal for a potential double header, with Roy and Dariusz to appear on the same card in a U.S. venue, in order to introduce Dariusz to a live U.S. audience.

Now this was turned down flat. And immediately, with no questions asked.

They did not ask about the venue, the purse, the date or a list of possible opponents.

They didn’t ask for a meeting to discuss a fight with Roy only. Either in the U.S in Germany, or in a neutral venue.

They wasn’t interested.

They just stayed in Germany happy to milk Dariusz’ belt dry, against mostly low level opposition as well as guys who Roy had already beaten.

Roy did not duck that fight in any way.

And the fact that Dariusz’ team wouldn’t even meet, speaks volumes.

 

For me, the first 14 1/2 years of Roy Jones Jr. career produced the best boxer of my lifetime. That includes being better than my beloved Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao and anyone else I can think of. The fact he then got old and stayed way too long not withstanding, He is a couple of levels above the great Tommy Hearns.

 

You heard of the invention of paragraphs?

Never said Hearns ducked Mugabi or that there was a given moment for the fight. Just that it was a intriuging match-up, which is hard to deny, and that it never was made, which is even harder to deny.

 

I agree with what you`re saying to a certain extent except I`d put the win over Benitez above the wins over Cuevas and Duran and I don`t think the second fight v Leonard was more impressive than Jones` win over Toney, I felt Ray and Hearns looked sloppy in that fight.

 

This one was truly confusing. High on Floyd? Think you must have me confused with someone else.

I would have liked to see him against McClellan or Benn, but instead they ruined each other. But that fight was just three months after Jones won the title from Toney so it's really hard to see a window for Jones, unless you know something I don't about that.

After that I don't know if there were any talks between them, but if Jones had beaten Benn after McClellan he would just be accused of robbing the grave of a shot fighter, so hard to see how he could win there. Benn then went on to lose to Malinga (for the second time according to most), a fighter Jones had already outclassed.

Jones tried to get a unification against Liles, but even Liles's manager says Liles prized himself out of that one.

So we're left with Eubank, who didn't seem very keen on Jones. He then lost to Collins, and Collins was loud about how much he wanted Jones. So that is the fight it boils down to that Jones looks like he could have taken, but didn't. I wish he had. There were, after all, no Haglers waiting for him at 175 lbs. He could have made room for Collins.

Just as Hearns could have made room for McCallum. But that one doesn't count apparently.

 

Everything you posted is not true.

That is the point.

He was not a cherry picker.

Again, HBO as well as Liles’ own manager, have stated that a fight was lined up with Liles, but that Liles blew it.

That wasn’t Roy saying that. That was Liles’ own manager, who was outraged, as he was convinced that Liles had the beating of Roy.

He was not protected by HBO.

Over the years, I’ve put this evidence down, with direct quotes and links from all parties.

I have given quotes from Liles’ manager, Jack O’Halloran.

I have posted direct quotes from HBO’s Mark Taffet and Kerry Davis.

Davis saying in detail what they did to try and get Universum to meet, so that they could try and secure a fight with Dariusz.

Taffet saying that he met Hopkins privately, one on one, where he offered him $6m and an extra fight on HBO, for a 168 pound catch-weight, in the summer of 2002.

I have posted all of these links before.

I have posted links where Hopkins said “$10m or no fight” back when the majority of his purses had been around $1.2m, with his highest ever purse being under $4m back then.

You have ran with this myth for years now.

Liles, Hopkins and Dariusz didn’t want to fight Roy back in the day.

Joe Calzaghe didn’t want to fight Roy back in the day.

But what gets me, is those guys are celebrated for having long title reigns. Yet those title reigns were mostly done out of a lack of ambition.

Now again, Roy could have had an IBF title reign at SMW for years. He could have fought 3-4, B-C level guys a year.

Yet he didn’t. He moved up to try and pursue better fighters. Yet they were celebrated and received huge credit, whilst Roy was accused of being a cherry picker and being protected.

But how can that have been true, when he chased down fights with Hopkins and Darius, before fighting Tarver etc?

It’s just absolute nonsense.

Now if you want to refute any of what I’ve said, then be my guest.

 

No disrespect to Mugabi, but he never beat a top level fighter in his career.

He was exciting.

But never a top level guy.

 

I wasn't necessarily saying that Cuevas and Duran wins was better than the Benetiz win. I was trying to say that the way he won those fights, sparking them both early, was better than the Toney win. Nobody did that to Duran. but overall ... Cuevas, Benetiz, Duran in that order for me

 

How can he have cherry picked at 168, when he fought Toney and Malinga, and he had a fight lined up with Frankie Liles?

Please explain that.

Also, you had no problem with McCallum being missed for bigger fight opportunities.

So let’s say that Roy did leave the SMW division for bigger, more lucrative fights at LHW, what would have been wrong with that??

How can you give Hearns a pass for doing it, but not Roy?

How is that in any way being objective??

That’s nonsense.

 

100 % correct here, IF he wasnt taking fights with Duran , Benetiz and Hagler, Barkley, SRL .... then it would be a duck .... But Mike also says that Hagler ducked him too. lol ... so I think you can put 2 and 2 together, Mike was a distraction !!! and for no money
Hearns wasnt a cherry picker like RJJ and Floyd thats why I have him ahead ...