P4P Comparison - Inoue vs Ryan Garcia

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by shadow111, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,348
    1,443
    Jul 31, 2013
    If Ryan Garcia cleans up 135 (Teo, Haney & Tank-Loma if they want to stick around), then we can start discussing his potential.

    For now Ryan Garcia is the biggest 2nd coming of Oscar De La Hoya since Bojado, With Bojado the hype was so big boxing fans and their moms hailed him as an ATG in the making from the debut, even Teddy Atlas loved Francisco Bojado as early as 1-0 (KO 1)

     
  2. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,410
    4,041
    May 2, 2015
    This iş genuinely stupid. This is worse than comparing Wanheng Menayothin's record to PBF's, and people only do that comparison to troll Floyd and his fans.
     
  3. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,348
    1,443
    Jul 31, 2013
    Wanheng Menayothin fought his whole career at 105, Floyd moved thru divisions. So not a good comparison
    • 54-0 undefeated world record
    • 13 of Wanheng Menayothin fights were WBC-105 title fights (2nd after Ricardo Lopez)
    Wanheng Menayothin is making a strong case for himself, either we like it or not
     
  4. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    Well the difference is, I'm not creating a topic and arguing that Ryan Garcia is better than Inoue. I want to hear from everyone on who they think is better P4P and why. Anotherwords what makes Inoue so much better than Ryan Garcia. Both have the same amount of fights and the same # of knockouts and are closer in weight than Canelo and Inoue.

    This topic isn't about comparing Canelo vs Inoue. That was what the other topic was for which was a topic claiming that Inoue was #1 P4P. I had every right to bring up Canelo there because he is currently regaraded as P4P #1. But here it's just a straight comparison between Inoue and Ryan Garcia. Now I give you credit you're at least trying to do the comparison. But you haven't made any reasl argument besides you just saying that RG isn't as good as Inoue. I'm looking for actual reasons, arguements as to why Inoue is better. And further, even if you rate Inoue higher, which is perfectly fine, what if anything does Ryan Garcia do better than Inoue?
     
  5. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    How is this stupid or even remotely comparable to that? These are two active fighters both with the same # of fights and the same # of knockouts. It is a very relevant topic, what's stupid is the amount of posters who continue to bring up Canelo here, when the topic is about Inoue and Ryan Garcia.
     
  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    Attempts to exaggerate, bring up Canelo, bring up Mayweather Batman Superman have nothing to do with this topic. This topic is about comparing Inoue and Ryan Garcia as fighters P4P. What are each fighter's strengths and weaknesses. What makes one better than the other. That's what this topic is about.
     
  7. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    Go for it. And about Inoue vs Ryan Garcia? Who do you rate higher and why?
     
  8. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    63,508
    12,261
    Jul 26, 2004
    I think the most relevant questions for this comparison would be...

    - Who has won titles in more divisions?

    - Who has beaten more top 10 opponents?

    - Who has beaten more current or former champions?

    ....

    The answers to these I think would help explain the disparity between how the two are currently rated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
    Flo_Raiden and Toney F*** U like this.
  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    @kirk I'm interested in a comparison of their skills which is what P4P is supposed to be about. Also who has more flaws.
     
  10. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,524
    5,048
    Oct 12, 2010
    What kinds of answers are you looking for exactly? Comparing their skills and P4P is irrelevant when one guy obviously has fought better opponents and has won titles in 3 weight classes while the other guy is just a prospect. That should already tell you all you need to know about their skill level.
    Really, what is the point of this comparison? Just because they have an identical boxing record? Give me a break.
     
    Toney F*** U likes this.
  11. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

    63,508
    12,261
    Jul 26, 2004
    Well then youre only talking about a fraction of what determines someones p4p ranking.

    The reason why things like resume matter when discussing p4p is because skills and ability can be deceptively misleading and ultimately subjective.

    If it was just about skills... and not what youve done inside the ring, then someone could proclaim any prospect with a handful of fights as the most skilled fighter theyve seen and thus p4p number one. Its meaningless without proving it.

    The level of opponent is the purity test for skills. Its what determines how real the skills are. Anyone can look amazing against low level opposition. The test is can you maintain that against rising levels of opposition.

    Wanting to discuss p4p without discussing how many weight divisions someones gone or who've theyve defeated is.... no p4p discussion.

    Anyway... you asked why Inoue is rated higher, thats why.
     
    Toney F*** U and Flo_Raiden like this.
  12. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    Like Lomachenko? He was only a prospect with a handful of fights and many proclaimed him as #1 P4P early on in his career. He even lost his first title fight for goodness sake. His second shot for the same title he won a close, majority decision. But what made Lomachenko a top P4P fighter early on wasn't his resume, was it? It was his outstanding footwork, his elusiveness, his fluid eye-catching movement, etc wasn't it?

    So it seems to me that, over time, P4P has become more of a popularity contest than anything else. If it's about resume, than Canelo is the clear P4P #1. Yet look in the other topic about how Inoue was P4P #1. Yet we continue to see a lot of posters on here continuing to argue that Canelo isn't P4P #1. But if you say it's mainly about resume, if that's the case, than anyone arguing Inoue's P4P #1 like in that other topic should be immediately destroyed since his resume can't compare to Canelo and he only has a third the # of fights as Canelo. But that's not what happened, I got ganged up on for simply pointing out that Canelo is P4P #1 lol and saying how could you have Inoue P4P #1. With such a weak resume compared to Canelo, if that's the criteria than I should have been seen as overwhelmingly correct.

    I use the example of Lomachenko because everything you're saying here could apply to him, yet he has been ranked near or at #1 P4P pretty much since he debuted! Loma looked great against Sosa and other B or C level fighters. Then how the hell did Loma become like P4P #1 or #2??

    But I do agree with what you're saying to an extent, I don't disagree with it, but I would only go as far as saying that not anyone can look amazing against low level opposition. Only great fighters can look amazing vs any level of opponent. When Prince Naseem debuted he fought Ricky Beard. It didn't matter who he was fighting, you knew he was special. He flipped into the ring, the athleticism was otherworldly. RJJ was P4P #1 and his resume was good but not great. He fought a lot of medium to low level opposition when he was in his prime. Still didn't change that he was the P4P best, it was obvious. And he didn't become the P4P best by who he fought. It was by what he did in the ring, how fast he was, the highlight reel KOs, etc.

    These are part of the equation but for me they aren't more important than the eye test. How good a fighter actually is regardless of competition, though tough competition is definitely important. As subjective and as hard as it is, that's what it's really about. I mean we're just on the heels of Mayweather saying how there's too many belts in boxing. So after that, we're still supposed to rank P4P based on how many belts you have or who they defeated?

    I mean Canelo's wins over GGG were discredited because of GGG's age. Well the biggest name for Inoue was a guy Donaire who was even older than GGG was when he fought Canelo AND already had 5 losses! GGG was undefeated. But I don't see anyone saying Inoue's win over Donaire really wans't that great because of how old Donaire was. Now it's just he fought Donaire and Ryan Garcia hasn't fought anyone that big of a name, so that makes Inoue higher. But wait a minute, Canelo fought not just GGG twice but countless big names vs Inoue who fought pretty much nobody else but yet we got people arguing Inoue's P4P #1.

    Alls I'm saying is that P4P is actually more than just a popularity contest or looking at someone's resume. It's simply their fighting prowess. Yes you use these other things like resume to get a sense of who's fought more competition, but P4P really should be about their skills. That's why Lomachenko has been ranked so high even as a prospect with only a couple of fights. If Prince Naz made that debut against Ricky Beard tomorrow he should be P4P #1 too because no one has anything close to that speed and athleticism.
     
  13. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

    6,473
    8,029
    Jun 26, 2019
    You ****ed up w/ this thread. NO ONE can take you seriously.

    Inoue is an offensive juggernaut and dismantling, hurting, dropping, and KOing dudes left and right with both hands while going to the body and the head.

    Inoue is 15-0 w/ 13 KOs in title fights.

    He's blowing them out and winning with ZERO controversy and he's not popular, so that's not really driving his P4P status.
     
    Toney F*** U likes this.
  14. fcb1068

    fcb1068 Member Full Member

    424
    343
    Aug 16, 2012
    I think I now get where you're coming from, you're comparing Inoue's and Garcia's skill sets. Other posters and I misinterpreted the intention of your post, probably due to the way the title is worded.

    So here's a quick comparison:

    Power: both have power clearly, but the difference is that Inoue has not only superior absolute power (not p4p power) but can deliver that power more effectively from a variety of different ways. Inoue is a proven puncher at the elite level (there's no guarantee that when Ryan Garcia starts fighting world class opponents his punches will have the same effect). Inoue is the best puncher I've seen in boxing history in any weight division.
    Speed: Inoue has much better speed than Ryan Garcia. For some reason in a real fight Garcia does not look as fast as he does on the bags.
    Footwork: Inoue is miles ahead here. Inoue has better footwork than a prime GGG. Let that sink in.
    Ring IQ: Inoue is a much smarter boxer than Ryan Garcia. He can make adjustments to any opponent and situation. The way he adjusted from the second round after Donaire injured his eye was remarkable. Compare this to how Loma had no idea how to adjust to Teofimo's powerful punches or how Brook didn't know how to adjust after suffering the same injury against Spence Jr even though Brook's injury happened much later on in the fight against Spence Jr and Spence Jr is no where near the puncher that Donaire is (Also Brook is physically bigger than Spence where as Inoue is quite a bit smaller than Donaire). You could also see the way Inoue broke down a very defensively good Maloney, when every other boxer would have been forced to resort to a points win.
    Heart: The above in ring IQ has already touched on heart which no one else in the sport has like Inoue.
    Chin: Inoue has a very good chin. I think chin will be Ryan Garcia's weakness since he has a long skinny neck and a smallish head/face, but I hope I'm wrong.
    Defence: Inoue's defence is not great but is good, and has been tested against world level opponents and champions, so Inoue's defence is likely better than Ryan Garcia's.
    Jab: Inoue's jab is a bullet, look at Maloney's face, most of that facial damage was from the Inoue jab alone.
    Athleticism: Inoue is much more athletic than Ryan Garcia.
    Strength: Inoue's physicality is under rated, notice that despite him being smaller than most of his opponents, he never gets physically dominated. I saw a sparring match where Ryan Garcia didn't look too comfortable against a pressure fighter because Ryan Garcia was a bit overwhelmed by his strength (but Ryan probably doesn't have his man strength yet so we'll revisit that later).
    Timing: Timing is the only area where the difference between Inoue and Ryan Garcia is not light years apart. Inoue's timing is super elite. Ryan Garcia's timing looks to be just elite which is still better than most.
     
    shadow111 likes this.
  15. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,294
    2,911
    Aug 1, 2012
    Great post, the areas that you highlighted where Ryan Garcia is possibly better than Inoue is Defense and Timing. I say possibly because you're not ready to say that but you seemed to suggest that these are areas that Inoue is lacking in. I think the footwork is different, I think both have great footwork but it's a completely different kind of footwork so I don't think you can say one is better than the other. I agree Inoue's is very good maybe even better than prime GGG. Ryan Garcia's technique though for his style is very good too.

    Inoue's a more explosive power puncher, but as others have pointed out, his technique does leave himself open to counters. Like how he leaves his chin sticking out when throwing hooks. Ryan Garcia is more fundamentally sound than Inoue, but Inoue is more explosive. It reminds me a little bit of comparing Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins. RJJ was more explosive but also potentially more chinny. Hopkins was more textbook sound defensively but didn't have the super speed of RJJ. Ryan Garcia may not have as strong of a chin physically as Inoue, but his technique doesn't leave his chin sticking out like Inoue's does.

    Ring IQ is another area that isn't clear. Both have great ring IQ's from what I've seen, but yes I do think Inoue has shown more of an ability to adjust. Ryan Garcia doesn't have to adjust as much though because his style isn't as risky. He doesn't have a seek-and-destroy style like Inoue, it's more safety first. But again great post this is exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for.

    Oh and lets not forget : the Jab. Who has a better jab? Who is better at controlling range, a big part of Ring IQ and Timing.
     
    fcb1068 likes this.